I really dont understand why crossbows havent been legal all along.
Yes I've heard the poaching theary, but people still poach with all sorts of other weapons and things.
As far as being used in a primative weapons season, the Cross Bow is almost as old as Long bows or Recurves. Much older than Black powder weapons, and they are quite a challenge to shoot too.

------------------
Mike

 

I have no problem with handicap folks using them. I think it could be a mistake for 14 year old boys.

 

I personally don't have a problem with people who are handicapped or who have disabilities using crossbows. However, as for legalizing their use for just anyone, I have concerns/questions about it. I think that if it were going to happen there would have to be an additional crossbow season implemented. Personally, I see crossbows as more similar to guns than to bows. All one has to do is simply pull back the string, "lock" it into place, put the bolt in, and then pull the trigger. I see bowhunting being more complex, or more difficult than that (that is as far as having to draw on the animal, with the animal having a chance to hear or see you). With crossbows, they seem very analogous to guns in that the hunter really doesn't have to do much in order to get a shot off. Also, in many of the ads you see for crossbows there are scopes on them, just like guns, and this just makes it all the easier for the hunter. So like I mentioned earlier in this reply, if Michigan were going to permit the use of crossbows, I feel that there should be an additional season for crossbow only hunting.
Maybe if crossbows were used during the firearms season, I would be a little more supportive of their use, but I do not think they should be allowed during the archery season.

 

Go ahead and legalize their use. There will not be a measurable impact on the overall deer kill. And it will give hunters another weapon opportunity.

 

My concern is if they are given their own season when will it be? Will they take away from the archery season's length? Allow them during firearm's season? I also see problems with people using them in suburban areas and in the process giving archery a bad name. I can see trigger happy cross bow hunters hitting fellow archers in camoflage as they go to and from thier stand with their high powered scopes. The big difference I see is that they are always locked and cocked, which is a big advantage over having to draw on an animal that is 20 yds or less away. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. We'll see what happens.

 

I personally don't care for crossbows (except for those with physical handicaps) and would not choose to use one myself. I don't think current bow-hunters (as a whole) would drop their bows for a crossbow, but I do think some non-bowhunters would pick up a crossbow, with the thought that they wouldn't need to practice as much and still be effective. If this is true, increasing hunter participation would certainly be a good thing, so...

I would not be opposed to legalizing them, but would rather they had a specific season...perhaps using them during late archery season only. Let the October(& early Nov.) woods belong to the archers, the late November woods to the shooters, and then December can be for everyone. This could even offer a change of pace for a current bow-shooter, and perhaps offer some added anticipation for crossbow season.

eC

 

I copied this from another site for you guys that don’t think crossbows will make a difference because they will. Crossbows won’t be more popular than longbows at first but I would bet if you give it 5 –10 years they will become more popular than longbows.

I don’t believe or worry about the poaching problem but I do worry about the woods becoming increasing crowded like it is during gun season.

Tim


Here's the latest release from the OHIO DNR. Thanks to Joe Scholtz from the MSC.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE March 6, 2000
1999 DEER HUNTING SEASON SEES A SEVEN PERCENT INCREASE THANKS TO NEAR RECORD ARCHERY SEASON
COLUMBUS, OH -- The second highest archery deer harvest in Ohio history helped hunters harvest a total of 126,770 deer last year, a seven percent increase from the I 1 8,270 deer taken during 1998 season, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) Division of Wildlffe.
It was a record season last year for crossbow hunters who harvested 16,940 deer during the statewide archery season held October 2, 1999 through January 31, 2000. The previous record of 15,309 deer taken by crossbow hunters occurred in 1995. Crossbows were first permitted for use during Ohio's archery deer season beginning in 1976. More deer have been taken during the archery season with crossbows compared to longbows each year since 1989.
Longbow hunters last season harvested 12,364 deer, second highest on record behind the 13,107 deer taken with longbows during the 1995 season. Archery hunters harvested a total of 29,304 deer last season. Archery hunters killed a record 29,490 deer in 1994.
"Hunters enjoyed one of their most productive archery deer seasons to date last year. The preliminary total is slightly higher than what we had earlier expected, but it shows that our archery deer season is among the most popular hunting seasons we have in Ohio," said Pat Ruble, executive administrator of wildlife management and research for the Division of Wildlife.
The statewide primitive deer season held December 30 through January 3 produced a harvest of 12,335 deer, or third highest on record. Hunters took 84,1 01 deer during the statewide deer gun season held November 29 through December 5. Combined with special controlled deer hunts and the special early primitive season held in October, the preliminary total deer harvest last year of 126,770 ranks as Ohio's sixth highest deer harvest. A record 179,543 deer were harvested during the 1996 season.
(more)
NEAR RECORD ARCHERY SEASON
Page 2
The Division of Wildiffe this year is proposing deer hunting rules and season dates that are little changed from last year. However, there are significant changes being made in a realignment of Ohio's three deer management zones. A statewide public hearing on proposed hunting and trapping rules and season dates will be held in Columbus on March 16. The Ohio Wildlffe Council will vote on these proposals during its April 12 meeting in Columbus.
-30-
For Further Information Call 1-800-WILDLIFE

 

I would like to see cross-bows legal for senior citizens. In my book, we are all indebted to today's seniors. Many of these are not nearly as efficient with bows as they once were. Many can not climb and hunt from trees. Many of those that can not shoot a bow because of a physical disability are just too proud to say so. I say limit the cross-bows to our seniors. <----<<<

Why not let everyone shoot a cross-bow you ask? Personally, those capable will learn, and master archery. I believe that most hunters who participate in both types of hunting prefer the bow. If somehow the cross-bow replaced today's bow as an option. I think many people may miss out on all that is archery deer hunting. <----<<<

[This message has been edited by Joe Archer (edited 12-18-2000).]

 

I can see that this will be almost as contreversial as the baiting issue, and I hope that this won't be an issue that divides us as hunters.
I personally am pro crossbow. i enjoy hunting with my compound, but after 2 back surgeries, and a shoulder that has aged faster than the rest of me, I can see the day coming when I will have to put the compound away.
I don't need a doctor to tell me when it's time to switch over to a crossbow, nor do I need the govt. to make my decisions for me.
I think that there are those out there today who use a crossbow, and don't need to.
I think that there are MORE who need to, but don't want to deal with all the hassle of getting the OK to do so.

 

I am currently bow hunting with a 22 year old Darton that is noisy and slow(189 fps). I am thinking of buyung a new bow for next year. I could buy a crossbow just as easily as a recurve.
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[This message has been edited by Bob S (edited 12-18-2000).]

 

I don't know what the hell inline MLs have to do with this but the last time I checked MLs aren't legal during bow season and that is what we are talking about.

Guys, believe what you want but they want to make crossbows legal for everyone during bowseason and nothing else.

Tim

 

Well I don't worry so much about them screwing up the deer patterns during bow season as much as I worry about some guy with his high powered scope and cocked crossbow following me through the woods or an open field while I'm in camo during pre-dawn or post-dusk hunting hours.

 

I thought Cross Bows were Legal in Michigan in some instances. I think hunters have enought to worry about like the Antis . They do not need to feel that there way of huning is is the only way and STOP FIGHTING AMOUNG THEM SELVES ( FELLOW HUNTERS ) When compounds first came out i had one of the very first in Michigan MY GOD was a i hated by a bunch of traditionalists. Now it is not as importtant to them. LOL . Yhey are NOT ad deadly as people assume. There are a lot of Old and dissabled people that use cross bows and can not draw the regular bow. It is fairly easy to shoot a cross bow with out a lot of PRACTICE . So if people are hunting and hitting where there aiming and killing more deer instead of them just wounding them so much the better I will get off my soap box now

 

In Ohio they are legal now. My concearn with them here is the number of people that use them with scopes. As Steve has said, the number of people running around with one loaded, cocked, and scanning the area with their scope while in full camo does make me nervous.

While Grouse hunting in southern Ohio this fall while the Deer archery season was open, well over half of the deer hunters I saw were using a scoped cross bow. They becoming very popular in Ohio.


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Neapolis
---------

 

To carry the scope analogy further, should we be therefore be concerned about all the scoped rifles out there? I find it difficult to understand why a scoped crossbow would be more dangerous than a scoped rifle or shotgun.

 

Accept change!!!! Go for it!!!! I can't aford one now but would some day like to get one. I know my 70 year old father in law would get one and then I could get his new bear bow !!!!

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God Bless and may your aim be true

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 12-18-2000).]

 

bwiltse - my concearn about the scope was hunter orange, or the lack of it. At least in Ohio the hunter with a scoped shotgun in deer season will be wearing hunter orange.


------------------
Neapolis
---------

 

I bow hunt down here and wanted no part of crossbows when I moved here. I still have no desire to hunt with one but my father and uncle both use them and I really don't see alot of advantages to them. IMHO there are only two that stand out. Less time needed for practice and less motion when it comes time to draw. However, the motion thing I can argue because most compounds can be drawn and HELD while a deer is 50 or 60 yards away and held for a shot.

Now here's something to think about for those of you who are concerned about technological advantages and increased hunting preassure. How many of you hunt with in-lines for muzzle loader vs the percussion cap or flint people?
The same case for a seperate season could be made here. IMHO to me there is a far greater advantage with the new hi tech muzzle loaders over the older "PRIMATIVE" weapons than there is between a crossbow and a compound.

------------------
Never Confuse having a career with having a life!

 

Bill, the only thing different about a scoped cross bow than a rifle is that during rifle season people are presumably wearing orange.

 

I found this on the bowsite a while back. Some very good food for thought.

1st...Bernie Horton USED this very site the BowSite to promote the cross-gunn AGENDA in
Maryland. In Bernies post he said the only reason he started using and then manufacturing
crossgunns is the fact that he could'nt come to full draw with a real bow with-out spooking all the
game away.
Off duty now and at home,,,,,let me continue....hehe

The following is a copy of a post made on the Maryland state conference by Longhair in early 2000.

"Now, I will attempt to educate my friends in Maryland to the faults of the crossGUNN peoples
reasoning behind promoting its use. The crossGUNNERS are PROFITEERS PURE, BUT NOT
SO SIMPLE !! Yes, I have spent several years helping my fellow sportsmen in DEFEATING the
croosGUNN people here in my home state of New York. I will base my opinions on this
experience.

1st...Bernie Horton USED this very site the BowSite to promote the cross-gunn AGENDA in
Maryland. In Bernies post he said the only reason he started using and then manufacturing
crossgunns is the fact that he could'nt come to full draw with a real bow with-out spooking all the
game away.

____________________________________________________

HE WAS ALSO ASKED BY PAT TO STOP USING THE BOWSITE TO PROMOTE
CROSSGUNNS...THIS IS THE BOWSITE...NOT THE CROSSBOW SITE !!
________________________________________________________

Bernie also said that people who hunt out of tree stands are un-ethical and lazy slob's.

Bernie also used ALIASES and or Horton employees to support thier side. WARNING...THEY
STILL MAY BE USING THIS TACTIC HERE !!

This is the mentality of Horton and his crossGUNN buddies views....I ask you, are these the kind of
people you listen to ?? Are these the people who's opinions you support ??

2ndly. Bernie Horton tried to BUY a crossgunn season here in NY...by sending NYSCC Members
AND LOCAL OUTDOOR WRITERS down to Ohio to Bernies crossGUNN ranch on free hunts.
Free crossGUNNs and Free Hunts abound here in the land of BUYING CROSSGUNN
SUPPORT. NYSCC members like Bill Hilts Sr., Bob Banister, Mr. Long and Billy Hilts Jr. all went
on free hunts...also the NYSCC Big Game committee chairam a fellow from region 9 who's name I
can't remember and has recently passed away....and others whos names escape me now. This was a
key power play by Horton...PROMISING THEMSELVES A NY CROSSGUNN SEASON AS
THIER RETURN. WRONG ANSWER AGAIN, OTTIE. WE stopped them in thier tracks again.

Ottie and Bernie tried to get a little smarter the next time. Bernie fronted the money to start the NYS
CROSSBOW Hunters Association...free hats, Free crossGUNNS, FREE HUNTS etc...

Heres a TRUE STORY ABOUT THE CROSSGUNNERS, TOLD NO HOLDS BARRED !!
About 20 minutes before a NYSCC Meeting the NYSCHA THREATENED {YES,
THREATENED] the NYSCC with a LAW SUIT. Claiming that unless the NYSCC accepted the
NYSCHA application for membership PRIOR to the NYSCC Meeting...THEY WOULD SUE !!
They would not wait for the NYSCC Credentials Committee to even discuss thier application at the
NYSCC Meeting in only 20 minutes. Plain and simple Bernie and Ottie BOUGHT influential
NYSCC members, and they were ABUSING THEIR AUTHORITY. THIS SET A PRECEDENT
[sp?] FOR THE NYSCC. NEVER, EVER, HAS THE NYSCC ACCEPTED AN
APPLICATION BEFORE ITS SCHEDUALED MEETING. Its also viewed as illegal by many
including me.

What happened ?? The NYSCC cowarded...And Accepted the threatening NYSCHA application
for membership...no big deal right ?? WRONG !! VERY BIG DEAL !! Now the NYSCHA was a
VOTING MEMBER of the NYSCC...not only that, but they could now PROPOSE SEASONS
and BAG LIMITS, ECT...AND PROPOSE THEY DID !!

They started with a general CossGUNN season proposal...DEFEATED !! Then it was a season for
senior citizens only...DEFEATED !! Then it was a youth season...DEFEATED !! THEY WENT SO
FAR AS TO PROPOSE A CROSSGUNN FISHING SEASON !! DEFEATED DEFEATED
DEFEATED !!

Now, please put yourself in a NYSCC Members position:

Fact...state bowhunting organization all oppose a crossGUNN season, the NYS Conservation
Officers Association are on the record as OPPOSED to a crossGunn season, NYS MUZZLE
LOADERS ASSOCIATION are on the record as opposed, NYS Big Buck club is on the record
as opposed to a crossGUNN season, LITERALY EVERY ORGANIZED HUNTING GROUP IS
OPPOSED TO A CROSSGUNN SEASON HERE IN NY.

Folks these are all groups of fellow sportsmen, NOT TO MENTION THE NYS
CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION who REPRESENT 10's of 1,000's of
sportsmen and women who ALL oppose the crossGUNN here in NYS...How could the NYSCC
accept Bernies NYSCHA application being shoved down their throats ?? How ??

DIVIDE AND CONQUER...JUST LIKE THE ANTI-HUNTERS !! The pro-crossGUNN people
started saying that if you don't support the crossGUNN people here in NY...WE WERE
ANTI-HUNTERS. PLEASE, DO NOT ACCEPT THIS KIND OF REASONING !! Because I
do not support the use of the crossGUNN for the general population here in MY state of
NY...DOES NOT MAKE ME A ANTI-HUNTER...OR YOU EITHER.

The NYSCHA and its people have been saying that its a done deal, might as well accept it. I
watched a PSE rep. get his arse tossed out of a local archery shop after making this claim. Nope I
didn't get the chance to toss him...the shop owner did...and now theres a new PSE rep in my area !!
They even went so far as to print NYS CrossGUNN STAMPS one year !!

CrossGUNNS remain illegal to hunt with here in NY for the general population...mainly due to the
fact that the state bowhunting groups proposed and passed several Handicapped hunters
permits...LONG BEFORE OTTIE AND BERNIE BROUGHT THIER CARPET BAGGIN'
CROSSGUNN SCHEME TO TOWN. We have 3 different physically challenged permits here in
NYS. It has, IMO proved to be our savior in the past.

The Handicapped archers permit...allows the use of a device to hold the bow at full draw.

The non-amblitory[sp?] permit...alowing certain physically challenged people to hunt out of a vehicle
legally.

And the Modified crossbow permit...allowing a physically challenged person the use of a crossbow.
There were about 5 or 6 of these modified crossbow permits issued locally here with in days of its
passin'. Considering like .01 % of the general population was physically challenged, how could a %
of like .09 % be applying for these permits ??After several issues were raised on WHO actually
recieved these permits...ORIGINALLY INTENDED for use by the physically challenged...all 5 or 6
were REVOKED. One person who claimed to be a c-3 or c-4 quadrapalegic...was on his roof
re-shingling it, when DEC pulled into his driveway !! The others were revoked after similar questions
were raised as to thier degree of disability."

Thank you to Longhair for that excellent piece!

I too was here at the Bowsite and also read with my own eyes what Horton wrote here. It was, in
my opinion, the biggest slap in the face to BOWHUNTERS I have ever read.

"IF" crossguns are allowed into "archery-only" seasons, what next? Don't think for 1 minute that the
next guy, marketing cap & ball revolvers for example, wont start lobbying very hard to get his/her
products into "archery-only" seasons. Why not? "Hey, the crossgun guys are making a killin on this,
why not me?", I can hear it now.

Folks, its equal to the old saying, "A foot in the door" and thats what they've done in Ohio and a few
other states. Get the crossguns into bow seasons and it wont be long before an "archery only"
season will be a thing of the past.....more like a FREE- FOR- ALL SEASON.

Deer kill numbers will go up, seasons will be shortened. many crossgun supporters will claim deer
kill numbers need to be increased and that the crossgun is simply another management tool to get the
kill numbers up. HOGWASH. Firearms season is the management tool. Most states kill numbers
during firearms seasons are WAY OVER THE ARCHERY NUMBERS. That is the management
tool! The archery season is a recreational tool for the DNR's. If they want more deer kill numbers,
LENGHTEN THE FIREARMS DAYS! Its that simple, or do they know that but get "outside
encouragement" from the likes of people who stand to $profit$ from the
crossgun-in-archery-seasons folks??????????

Pretty darn obvious to me.

As I said before, I have nothing against the crossgun as a hunting weapon, WHEN USED IN
FIREARMS SEASONS!

Bowhunters are the ones who fought for these long, enjoyable seasons we now enjoy in many states,
the ones who practice diligently to become very proficient with a weapon that takes months and
even years to become extremely proficient with. Not so with a crossgun!

And yes, I have shot a crossgun. Took one for a handicapped person, bare from the store, to set it
up for him. Mounted the scope, tuned the device and the bolts and within FIVE MINUTES of
shooting I was slicing off vanes from the bolts at 60 yards. Very similiar to my Ruger 10/22!?! No
dedication, no practice (not much anyway), no worries......

DG>>>------>

 

Crossbows aren't my 'cup-of-tea' and I wouldn't use one.....

..... but if others want to use them I don't have a problem with that. Maybe some of the dorks that are improficient with their bows will take up crossbows and wound less deer from now on.

 

Well Hey, lets just let all the Dorks use a gun instead! So why do we hunt with a bow at all, if the so called wounding rate is so high? Get real. Chances are if they wound them with a bow they will with a crossgun.

 

Stinger seems pretty motivated, thought steve may have to start another page to accomidate all the info. I will obstained from the actual issue of the crossbow, because I need to research it more myself before making a decision. But a couple points to be made that were talked about on earlier posts. Steve, I always keep a light lit while going to and from my blinds while moving at pre dawn or post dusk times and I hunt private land. This should eliminate the risk of being mistakinly shot by any kind of hunter except someone who is blind and they must be acompanied by a sighted person so you should be OK there also. As far as not passing a law because a manufacture of a product may increase his sales if it passes and he is a jerk, Shouldn't make any difference to a clear minded person weighing all of the facts together. Just because he's a jerk doesn't make his product bad or unethical. Now on the Crossbow itself. Everything I have heard about the crossbow loosing poundage after it has been cocked for any extended periods of time is something to think about. As a bow hunter I can draw, aim and shoot and fatally hit an animal in less then 3 seconds. There will be missed oppertunities by crossbow hunters that the bow hunter will have harvested there game on. Well these are some points I have thought about. I by no means am pro or against crossbows this is something I will have to think on a while. Always keep an open mind on new things but also keep your guard up too!!!!

 

As for the scope thought. IF I had to have someone look at me with a bow in hand in the evening i would rather have the person have a scope on it then NOT. After all the object of a scope is to see better and a scope does gather morte light. BUT I WOULD RATHER NOT have anyone look at me with a plain bow sight or a SCOPE

 

Has anyone seen the "Bow-Lock" on television. It's a device that mounts onto a compound and essentially renders it a cross-bow. Are the considered a cross-bow or just a modification of the compound? Are they legal?
By the way, I'm not against them, but I would not chose to use one or any similar device unless my physical abilities warranted it. I also feel that the subject should go under close scrutinization for a few more years before they make any legal decisions regarding it's use by anyone not already licensed to do so.
Squig