Because they allow straight walled pistol cartridges to be used in rifles.

You could use 45-70 IN A PISTOL....

 

Lol sounds like a Kentucky ballistics video

 

Sounds like you've answered your own question. I think it's just that simple. Current legal cartridge length is 1.8" and the 45/70 is 2.105. It's not an issue of performance or range because there are other straight wall cartridges that out perform it that are currently legal. They at least equal it but are 1.8" in length. The 45/70 operates at such low pressure that it's as safe as any other legal straight wall cartridge out there. It's just how the DNR set it up.

 

You can use your 45-70 anywhere in Michigan if you comply with the regulations.

45/70 Michigan special ammunition (20 Pack) – Fury Custom Bullets

www.furycustombullets.com

 

Yep AND if it's in a Pistol I believe. Let's face it, that loaded ammo ISN'T 45/70 ammunition. It's like calling the 7-08 a 7mm mag.

 

Why 45/70 over 450 bushmaster?

 

Many want the nostalgic 45/70. I get it. No real reason why it couldn't or shouldn't be used. My 45 Raptor( legal in Southern Mi) sends a 200 grain bullet out the muzzle at 2800 fps. Those are 308 velocities with a 150-168 grain bullet. Absolutely zero reason the 45/70 can't be a legal cartridge.

 

I too would love to use a 45-70 in Southern Michigan. Is it more effective than the cartridges that are presently legal? No, but there are a lot of classic, fun guns that are built around the 45-70 and they just don't make those yet for the .350 and .450 cartridges.

Ohio and I do believe Iowa allows this cartridge in their limited firearm zones. Some of the southern states have primitive firearm seasons that allow hunting with center-fire cartridges that predate the 20th Century.

If it's ever made legal, I'll be putting down a deposit on a 45-70 lever gun

 

The 45/70 takes a different bullet size(.458)than the 450BM(.452). A little bigger diameter and much heavier bullets. The 450 offers bullets in the 200-325 grain range where the 45/70 bullets pretty much start at 300 grains. Not sure the 45/70 is any more effective than any other cartridges legally usable in southern Mi but because it's not makes it the reason it should be legal.

 

A trapdoor springfield would be fun....

 

First, DNR had absolutely nothing to do in promulgating this rule. In fact, they fought it tooth and nail for five years until it was obvious from passing unanimously they had no choice.

The only reason for how it was written was to mirror what DNR allowed in handgun but in rifle configuration. If anything else was added, DNR would have technical basis to deny this rule. The key position we had was we were only asking for what was already allowed but in rifle configuration. Even then, it took 5 years to get it to NRC. The original language specified pistol up to 1.8" but NRC requested "pistol" be removed for easier enforcement by CO's which was agreed upon.

Plenty of discussion to include other cartridges but it was recognized the proposal would have never gotten passed. DNR proved time and time they had zero interest in increasing hunters means of taking game.

It is frustrating to realize how political DNR was in this process versus working with to establish a rule that would benefit hunters.

FYI - the reasons for this rule was hunter recruitment and hunter sustainability to allow cartridges like the .44Mag, .357Mag etc to increase interest for youth, women, elder hunters and even those who were recoil sensitive. Cartridges were developed afterwards like the .450BM and 350Legend as result.

There is no logical reason why 45/70 shouldn't be added now except for DNR zero desire to do so.

Before anyone tries to refute this posting, I authored this rule in partnership with Matt Lori of 59th District. I have complete documentation of everything. In fact, I have sent copies to other state groups to start similar rule.

 

Doubtful any refuting would occur. For me it doesn't matter really. I shoot the 45 Raptor and would never jump to the 45/70 with having the Raptor. I understand some like the 45/70 as I do but I'm driven by the flat shooting hard hitting 240s for deer hunting Ohio. Range can be a factor and I don't like shooting big heavy bullets at distance on game. Kills at 350 are common where we hunt and the flatter the better.

 

FYI MUCC declined to partner with us in the beginning. As the proposed rule gained momentum over first couple years, they came into process which helped.

 

I personally love the fact of new cartridge development. The Raptor is by far one one the of best to go to IMO! What bullet are you using? Have you looked at Hammers?

.452 Archives - Hammer Bullets

hammerbullets.com

 

Never tried hammers other than with centerfire cartridges. I'm shooting the 240 Bear Creek tipped bullets in mine. Getting around 2600 from a 25" barrel. Very impressed with this set up. A bit hot but under one inch accuracy. I figure why not step on it a little. Not like I'll burn up a barrel anytime soon. Appreciate the link

 

Hammers are a little different. They generate more velocity due to how the PDR bands reduce bore pressure. I just finished up a load with .357 Max with 140 gr Shock Hammer topping out over 2700 fps! Accurate!!

 

Any chance this is the same Muddyboots on the LRH forum ? Think you run the hammers in a 257 Wby mag if it is.

 

Guilty as charged! Don't run a WBY but running Hammers in .357Max, .243Win, .270Win that is fast twist 1:8, 30-06, 300WSM and 300WM. All shoot exceptional with Hammers. The .270 is insane performance running a 156HH at 3200. It topped out almost 3300 but dropped back to save brass. Killed my biggest buck last year with it down in Indiana. What's not to like having a fast accurate highly available bullet?

 

I have had discussion with MUCC and will renew efforts. Totally agree there is no reason why except for DNR political stance against rifles. Even though already allowed in other seasons plus dun muzzleloading rifle.

 

They've been watching too many Quigley movies shooting out to 1000 yards. I would dearly love to shoot a 45-70, probably in something nostalgic.

 

Ok, the list I could see again realize bottlenecks will NEVER be allowed from their skewed perspective. The total length needs to be changed so a variety of straight wall can be added such as 45/70, 375Win, 444Marlin.

In process of draft and will advise when submitted.

 

Please don't leave out my beloved .38-55! I have a sweet levergun that would be nice to use on my property.

 

I know the shell length and pistol caliber rule, But why hasnt the DNR and or Michigan allow the Marlin 444 or 45/70 yet? I know its longer, etc.... but whats a good explanation why Michigan is behind other midwest states that already allow these calibers in the limited rifle zone? My modern inline muzzleloader in about equivalent as can be to my 45-70 in everything but it being a single shot like the muzzleloader. Wish Michigan would get on par with this.

Well I have cut down a 45 70 case to 1.750 inches it works nice in single shots also a 444 marlin same way its a great load in single shots both eork great

Sent from my SM-G981V using Michigan Sportsman mobile app

 

I have a buddy who shoots a cut down 444 in a single shot rifle. He loves that gun. It’s his go to hunting rifle even when he hunts “above the line”.

 

The best way to address the "other" straight walls slightly longer than 1.8" is to request a length than brings most of them in. Researching cartridges case length to hopefully grab the most likely or popular ones.

 

Now even IL is expanding centerfire rifle use for deer. I may use a 444 Marlin next fall on the lease. The caveat is you have to render the gun a single-shot, take out the tube spring, or however.

 

some folks would complain if you hung them with a brand new rope]

 

Now that some time has passed with no issues, maybe it needs to be revisited...

 

FYI - I recently submitted a resolution to the MUCC Policy Board that would allow up to 2.2" based upon significant feedback within MUCC to hopefully get us to allow the venerable 45/70 plus several other venerable straight wall cartridges that are less than 2.2" case length. I understand the heart burn of not going full bore on case length but there needs to be understanding of the MIDNR politics. Hopefully, it will make it to the 2025 MUCC Annual Convention where it needs to be for a chance for reform. I will try to answer any and all questions to the best of my knowledge.

For background, I was the original author of the straight wall cartridge legislation that I proposed to Rep. Matt Lori of the 59th District in June 2009 who became the Sponsor of this bill.

 

Hopefully there will be a better political climate then..

 

I don't understand all the hype. If the 45/70 was so great. We would have won at the Greasy Grass (Little Big Horn).

 

Happens to be a caliber I, and a lot of other people own- be nice to use that rifle- whats your problem with it?

 

It let the Seventh down.

 

I believe that was the rifle, not the cartridge.

 

Posts #33, and #35 were intended as jokes.

 

There's no reason the 45-70 shouldn't be allowed when we have things like 450bm etc

My 45colt win94 can get a 250gn up to 1700+fps and has been a great little hunting gun down here.

I think it would be great if you guys can get it old lever guns some action.

 

The resolution is listed on August 17th MUCC Policy Board meeting in Clare.

Conservation Policy Board - Michigan United Conservation Clubs

MUCC Conservation Policy Board The MUCC Conservation Policy Board consists of 40 voting members, and is chaired by the Vice President. The voting members are as follows: Three members from each Region to represent affiliated clubs (27 members, elected at Convention) Eight Individual Members (not...

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