My personal favorite is a 16 gauge. It has served me well for over 50 years. I have an O/U Marlin that fits and suits me well.

 

There is a lot more shot in an ounce and a quarter load, than a 3/4 or 7/8 ounce load. more shot on target= more birds in the bag.

 

Grouse are not hard to kill.
Most that are killed tend to fall within a certain distance for the successful gunner.

Optimize your equipment to widen, or deepen, your effective range.
It's hard to do both without increasing load size.

And for rough shooting, because of all the walking, many favor a lighter gun, in a smaller bore than 12.
With regards cartridges, I believe it best to optimize the cartridge choice to give you the pattern you want, at the typical range you can hit a bird at. Speed, choke, and shot type, all work to effect patterns.

So, if at the end of a woodland walk you are cursing the shotgun you carry, go lighter. If you are blowing wings off, go more open.

I'm not a fan of the "Bang, Bang, Bang" club that meets every Saturday in October, so I'm no help there.

I need typical Skeet patterns at typical skeet ranges, like WH Foster discovered, so, I optimize for that.
I may carry a tighter choked gun occasionally as the leaves drop, but it comes at a price on the close birds.

 

I like the 12 gage shell just because of the versatility of the load sizes . You can make the 12 feel like a 20 if you want . As far as brands what ever is the cheapest. You typically shoot more than you hit, so no need to spend a lot of money. 1-1/8 ounce is my norm but often use 1 ounce . 7-1/2 shot start of season till about now, once leaf is down my second second barrel will usually have a #6 just for better down range pattern. But this is just my 2 cents

 

Just speaking of gauge, I have a good argument for the twelve. If you are hunting grouse and woodcock, you can shoot the lightest loads. If you buy shells instead of reloading, that can save you lots. Even reloaders can save a little. The twelve also gives you the option of larger loads when hunting pheasants and waterfowl. One gun hunters tend to shoot their one gun well.

However there are other things to consider. Most twelves are heavier than 20s or 28s. Long walks in the grouse woods make light weight preferable. I do however have a few twelves that are fairly light, my duck gun is not.

I admit I hunt grouse with a 12 but that is because when I found a gun I liked and could afford, it was a 12. I would have had no problem buying a 20 or 16 if that would have been what it was. There actually was a 28 available at the same price, but the thought of finding 28 gauge shells in the middle of nowhere, and the possibility of a big rooster surprising me during a zone 3 hunt, pushed me to the 12.

 

20 gauge, skeet and skeet chokes. When leaves fall I use skeet and improved. Use 7.5 shot all season long. 1 oz hand loads.

 

Same chokes for me, just 1 1/8 #7.5 out of my 12.

 

Lamarsh,
Personally, I prefer a 12 ga. one reason, is because I need all the help I can get, however, I wouldn't be totally opposed to hunting with a 20 ga. I just have a few reservations about them, because, I've seen some grouse shot with 20's that didn't go down,and, especially here, I wouldn't want to shoot one and it end up being food for a predator,but, that's probably got alot to do with skill level also...
I shoot 1 1/8 oz, 7.5 shot...

 

Imp. cylinder choke

 

Thanks for all the responses. I'm always surprised to hear how often people are using 12s.

I did forget to mention what I use in my 12, which is mostly 2.75" 1 1/8oz #7.5. If I'm grouse hunting during waterfowl season and think I will encounter some waterfowl, I carry 2.75" 1oz #5 steel. If I had my druthers and money wasn't an issue, I'd shoot nothing but 2.75" 1 1/8oz #6 tungsten matrix for just about everything.

 

Thanks for all the responses. I'm always surprised to hear how often people are using 12s.

I did forget to mention what I use in my 12, which is mostly 2.75" 1 1/8oz #7.5. If I'm grouse hunting during waterfowl season and think I will encounter some waterfowl, I carry 2.75" 1oz #5 steel. If I had my druthers and money wasn't an issue, I'd shoot nothing but 2.75" 1 1/8oz #6 tungsten matrix for just about everything.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your post right or not. I was always under the impression it's against the law to have any lead shot on you while waterfowl hunting?

 

I roll my own loads have for years. My 12g grouse and wc load would be 3/4 oz of either 7.5 or 8
My 28g load is 3/4oz or either 7.5 or 8. Occasionally I will load 7 shot. Muzzel velocity of my 12 ga load is between 1300 and 1325 fps My 28ga loads are a bit slower 1200-1250fps I will only use lead or plated lead (copper or nickel plated) shot. These loads are available online Federal makes a load that is known as an International trap load 24grams (3/4oz) of plated 7.5 Not as pricey as would think For my money one of the top 5 factory loads available. A reloader with few manuals and some practice along with pattern board and range time can copy just about any load the top factory's are producing. Shoot what gun fits and you will be happier.

As for pheasants with a 28 ga it is doable, and I have bagged saber tails with the little gun, however i tend ride birds a bit so as give me dog what I feel is a proper retrieve.

Upland hunting is about enjoyment and it is.I take a great deal of satisfaction from bagging a bird with a dog that I trained and ammunition that I made. Although I did not manufacture the gun I did spend time and tide changing the stock to fit me like a glove and shoot where I look.

 

I killed more flying game with a sigle shot 12 than any later guages or actions.
Familiarity,fit and swing plus payload I imagine all combined.
I break clays better with my 20 pump ,but not birds.
Not blaming the 20.

 

I used to use a 28, but the ridiculous cost of practicing with that gun made me start using my 20 years ago, not too coincidentally about the same time I had kids and no time to reload hundreds of shells a month. 20's cost the same as 12's. 28's are easily 50% more.

 

Gun cranks, field trialers, and Accountants, talk about the "marginal rate of utility".
If your kills are with the marginal pellet, (fringed, lightly hit, almost always alive when delivered), then do what you can to move the marginal pellet away from the bird.
That's a bigger pattern, a more lethal pellet, or a denser pattern.

Or improved shooting skill, so that the likelihood of the bird being centered increases.

Those possibilities are why so many fiddle around with the various 12's. It's a very versatile gauge.

If a person wants to make their hobby harder, then the reverse is true.

 

Whenever I pattern a 20 gauge or a 28 gauge at 30 yards the patterns are essentially the same. With that being said I prefer carrying a lighter gun.
As the season progresses I switch back to a 12 gauge to increase my odds, due to birds flushing farther away. It makes me feel better anyway.

 

There was a recent thread on grouse guns. There did not appear to be parameters on the feedback, and everybody sort of piled in with things ranging from a type of gun to the exact make and model they use, and so on. Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially since it is always fun to hear about peoples' favorites, but I'd like to narrow that topic a bit and discuss everybody's preferred shell. I have my own thoughts, but I would mainly like to hear some experienced grouse hunters ideas on the subject, such that it might help me make up my mind on my next shotgun purchase.

I'm currently using what I have, which is a Benelli SBE2 (a bulky 12 gauge auto designed for waterfowl hunting and paddling small boats). I do notice plenty of veteran grouse hunters favor a 12 gauge; however, upon deeper investigation, many of those guys simply favor the particular gun more often than the 12 gauge shell itself for the grouse woods. The general consensus appears to lay with the 20 and the 28 as an exclusive go-to gun in the grouse woods, and I've heard a few tout the 16 as well. But I'd love to hear anybody's reasons if they favor the 12 gauge as a shell and not because of the specific gun.

My own thoughts so far: Acknowledging the sufficiency in pattern density of the 28 gauge on upland game, and certainly not being opposed to buying one, I am leaning towards a 20 for the following reasons: (1) versatility (can still be used on waterfowl because of size, density and ability to shoot non-toxic shot), (2) availability of shell options, and (3) the fact that most of the 20g guns I've been looking at are either just as light as the 28s, or only negligibly heavier.

I'd like to keep this thread limited to shells for grouse and woodcock; however, for the folks that prefer a 28, I'd be curious on your opinion as to its effectiveness on pheasants.

 

I have been using my 12 ga montefeltro for 18 years now.I have done patterning on loads over the years and have found that the federal target load works well on grouse.12 ga/2 3/4 dram.eq./1 1/8 shot/ number 8.1145 fps.Great for woodcock also.

 

I tend to think the indian is more important than the arrow. A 28g is fine, so is a 20 and a 16 and a 12....if in the right hands.

 

I shoot all my woods birds with a 28 gauge, plus have shot, sharps, phez ans huns, they didn't care what gauge it was. I just add more choke and different shot size depending where I hunt.

 

I always ran a 12 guage semi or o/u . I got an 1187 Remmy in 20 a couple years ago love it. I shoot 8-9 lead with a skeet choke.

 

There was a recent thread on grouse guns. There did not appear to be parameters on the feedback, and everybody sort of piled in with things ranging from a type of gun to the exact make and model they use, and so on. Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially since it is always fun to hear about peoples' favorites, but I'd like to narrow that topic a bit and discuss everybody's preferred shell. I have my own thoughts, but I would mainly like to hear some experienced grouse hunters ideas on the subject, such that it might help me make up my mind on my next shotgun purchase.

I'm currently using what I have, which is a Benelli SBE2 (a bulky 12 gauge auto designed for waterfowl hunting and paddling small boats). I do notice plenty of veteran grouse hunters favor a 12 gauge; however, upon deeper investigation, many of those guys simply favor the particular gun more often than the 12 gauge shell itself for the grouse woods. The general consensus appears to lay with the 20 and the 28 as an exclusive go-to gun in the grouse woods, and I've heard a few tout the 16 as well. But I'd love to hear anybody's reasons if they favor the 12 gauge as a shell and not because of the specific gun.

My own thoughts so far: Acknowledging the sufficiency in pattern density of the 28 gauge on upland game, and certainly not being opposed to buying one, I am leaning towards a 20 for the following reasons: (1) versatility (can still be used on waterfowl because of size, density and ability to shoot non-toxic shot), (2) availability of shell options, and (3) the fact that most of the 20g guns I've been looking at are either just as light as the 28s, or only negligibly heavier.

I'd like to keep this thread limited to shells for grouse and woodcock; however, for the folks that prefer a 28, I'd be curious on your opinion as to its effectiveness on pheasants.

Each gauge has its "sweet spot" regarding efficient delivery of payload. All things being equal, that's 1 1/8 oz for a 12 gauge, 1 oz. for a 16, 7/8 oz. for a 20, and 3/4 oz. for a 28. Yes, you can pack 1 1/8 oz. in a 20 gauge, but patterns inevitably suffer because with all the shot crammed into that narrow bore.

If you're looking to shoot magnum #5's at wild pheasants, the 12 gauge is your BFF; if you want to shoot #8's or #9's at grouse and woodcock in Michigan, reach for a 28, 20, or 16 - or down-load a 12 gauge with light loads. Either way, I go with the lightest load that'll do the job efficiently.

Michigan upland hunters walk a lot and shoot a little. That means a light gun, but also one that's balanced. Too many supposed "upland sweeties" are short-barreled, choppy aberrations that are as easy to stop swinging as they are to start. Balance is what you're looking for, regardless of weight.

If you're going to shoot a 28 or 16, it pays to load the shells yourself. I save about $8 per box on 28's and $5 per box on 16's. It all adds up. Aside from economics, as Hal wisely mentioned, there's pride in assembling loads to your liking. If you prefer a 12 or 20, you could roll your own shells to customize loads, but you probably won't save much money.

Lastly, as much as I revere the 28 for grouse and woodcock, I feel it makes a poor gauge for tough, wild pheasants. When I hunt pheasants I reach for plated #5's. How many of those fit in 3/4 ounce? Not many.

A place for everything, and everything in its place, as they say.



Ray

 

There was a recent thread on grouse guns. There did not appear to be parameters on the feedback, and everybody sort of piled in with things ranging from a type of gun to the exact make and model they use, and so on. Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, especially since it is always fun to hear about peoples' favorites, but I'd like to narrow that topic a bit and discuss everybody's preferred shell. I have my own thoughts, but I would mainly like to hear some experienced grouse hunters ideas on the subject, such that it might help me make up my mind on my next shotgun purchase.

I'm currently using what I have, which is a Benelli SBE2 (a bulky 12 gauge auto designed for waterfowl hunting and paddling small boats). I do notice plenty of veteran grouse hunters favor a 12 gauge; however, upon deeper investigation, many of those guys simply favor the particular gun more often than the 12 gauge shell itself for the grouse woods. The general consensus appears to lay with the 20 and the 28 as an exclusive go-to gun in the grouse woods, and I've heard a few tout the 16 as well. But I'd love to hear anybody's reasons if they favor the 12 gauge as a shell and not because of the specific gun.

My own thoughts so far: Acknowledging the sufficiency in pattern density of the 28 gauge on upland game, and certainly not being opposed to buying one, I am leaning towards a 20 for the following reasons: (1) versatility (can still be used on waterfowl because of size, density and ability to shoot non-toxic shot), (2) availability of shell options, and (3) the fact that most of the 20g guns I've been looking at are either just as light as the 28s, or only negligibly heavier.

I'd like to keep this thread limited to shells for grouse and woodcock; however, for the folks that prefer a 28, I'd be curious on your opinion as to its effectiveness on pheasants.

Each gauge has its "sweet spot" regarding efficient delivery of payload. All things being equal, that's 1 1/8 oz for a 12 gauge, 1 oz. for a 16, 7/8 oz. for a 20, and 3/4 oz. for a 28. Yes, you can pack 1 1/8 oz. in a 20 gauge, but patterns inevitably suffer because with all the shot crammed into that narrow bore.

If you're looking to shoot magnum #5's at wild pheasants, the 12 gauge is your BFF; if you want to shoot #8's or #9's at grouse and woodcock in Michigan, reach for a 28, 20, or 16 - or down-load a 12 gauge with light loads. Either way, I go with the lightest load that'll do the job efficiently.

Michigan upland hunters walk a lot and shoot a little. That means a light gun, but also one that's balanced. Too many supposed "upland sweeties" are short-barreled, choppy aberrations that are as easy to stop swinging as they are to start. Balance is what you're looking for, regardless of weight.

If you're going to shoot a 28 or 16, it pays to load the shells yourself. I save about $8 per box on 28's and $5 per box on 16's. It all adds up. Aside from economics, as Hal wisely mentioned, there's pride in assembling loads to your liking. If you prefer a 12 or 20, you could roll your own shells to customize loads, but you probably won't save much money.

Lastly, as much as I revere the 28 for grouse and woodcock, I feel it makes a poor gauge for tough, wild pheasants. When I hunt pheasants I reach for plated #5's. How many of those fit in 3/4 ounce? Not many.

A place for everything, and everything in its place, as they say.



Ray

 

FWIW - I buy my shells periodically, only on sale, and then multiple cases at a time. I can find 28g shells from $7.50/box and up. If you look around, you don't have to spend a whole lot more on good quality 28g shells vs the other gauges.

 

If the weight of the gun is a concern, golf could be a better option.

 

I have killed XXX's grouse and XXX's ducks with a 20 gauge grouse I use 7.5 at 1250 per foot. Ducks I use #2's .
But I have killed just as many using 12 gauge in the same shot size. It is the Indian not the arrow

 

I don't think you were reading it right, I said "If I'm grouse hunting during waterfowl season and think I will encounter some waterfowl, I carry 2.75" 1oz #5 steel. If I had my druthers and money wasn't an issue, I'd shoot nothing but 2.75" 1 1/8oz #6 tungsten matrix for just about everything."

Whole point was that you cannot carry any lead, like you mentioned, so I use #5 steel for grouse when that happens, but if I had the dough I'd just carry tungsten matrix, but at $3/shell it's not happening right now with my so-so wing shooting skills.

Have you tested 2.75" 1oz #5 steel on a pattern board at say 15-20 yrds? This distance 15-20 yds would be good grouse and woodcock distances. 20 yards is like the distance from home plate to the pitchers mound