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21 - 29 of 29 Posts
In Gabe Brown's situation, he's grazing lots and lots of cattle which undoubtedly helps make up for some missing synthetics (each cow deposits over 2# of nitrogen per day and good numbers of P and K) . Using soil test data fertilizer recommendations for deer plots is most likely overkill, I'm not farming for top yield and typically use 1/3 to 1/2 of the recommended fertilizer with exceptional results.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Being a farmer, I would love to not have to use synthetic fertilizers, but as others have pointed out it is a long (and potentially impossible) process to reach that point. In the meantime, we need to cash flow and make a profit to stay in business. Something that gets overlooked is cow manure. It is utterly (pun intended) amazing what cow manure can do for low organic soils (especially sand). But the thing that gets overlooked is that unless the feed that produces that manure comes from somewhere else, it does not build your soil's health in a timely mannner. In a way it's a rob Peter to pay Paul scenario. Until that gets figured out, I will continue to practice as much no till and cover cropping to improve soil health.

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Didn't really hear much in the podcast that wasn't previously discussed in the QW article. They did mention that the deer showed a preference towards forages high in Phosphorous but also mentioned that the soils in that area appeared to be low in P and that may have had some influence because they amended the soils based upon soil test results.

On a side note... One of the things touted in the QDMA Deer Steward 1 course was that Phosphorous equals Antlers so if your soils are low in P it is probably good to amend P levels. Of course, there are many cover crop forages that can be planted which will also mine P from deep in the soil so....more than one way to skin the cat.
 
Examples of my "Love:Hate" relationship with synthetic fertilizers:

This was my custom mix fertilizer for only 3 acres of alfalfa I planted last spring... Of course there was more fertilizer for July Brassicas and more again for August cereal grains/cover crops...

View attachment 756165

Another trip for fertilizer...

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More synthetic fertilizer...

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Rinse and repeat...

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Don't ever tell your wife how much this stuff really costs...

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I just took a quick look at some of my food plot expenses over the last 3 years. $3,639 total for an average of over $1,200 per year just for the fertilizer!! I truly hope the deer really appreciate all that we do for them. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a "write off" for my deer farming expenses.

Notwithstanding the negative effects it may have on healthy organic soils, synthetic fertilizer is darned expensive and if I can eventually do as well through no-till farming practices - I am all-in.

I will continue to soil test and adjust my fertilizer inputs as we go. Last year (5th year of no-till planting) I applied 75% of the recommended fertilizer. I am planning to go at a 50% rate this year and lesser amounts in future years if possible. I just need to get my cover crops producing the right nutrients organically in order to get away from the synthetics.

Nobody ever said it was going to be easy but...."easy" isn't always the best route either.
I often threaten I'm going to quit because the deer just don't seem to appreciate it.
 
It doesn't happen overnight but eventually regenerative ag can produce soils that produce ag yields much greater than they previously were able to get from traditional ag practices using synthetic fertilizers. If you look around some on all of the info on-line on regenerative ag and no-till farming you will see many, many success stories from farms who haven't applied any fertilizer in the last 10-20 years...and they say it can be accomplished anywhere in the world.

Or...take a look at the book that Osceola referenced in the OP:

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My plotting began on tired soil.
A small area. But weed "control", suppression was easy there.
Being it needed "help" it was targeted.
Five years , little gain.

The site was ag. Then fallow a couple decades (?) A good fifteen years anyways from what I gathered from a (not the) previous owner.
Great root systems. Good amount of what I'll call loam.
Compared to at home here a dozen miles away in the sand with a skin of loam built up after the past century...The site I work is great.

Because of where I began plotting , (how did it get in such poor condition?) I've suspected that breaking that layer of loam and plant roots will have a negative effect.
I'll plot this year where trails were cut and root raked. It's exposed.

During the five years I've mowed a particular area 2-3 times a year. That removed (or suppressed) the taller plants. Goldenrod ect..
That particular area is three times or more of that regular plot adjacent.
Despite rye and brassicas and whatever came up under the rye cover that was supposed to be clover , a good 80% of deer browsing (serious stuff , not the meandering sampling nibbling) is still that mowed area.
It did get some fertilizer and lime overlap in areas. Even tossed some fertilizer by hand on a couple spots to look for deer reaction in time.) But deer position in that mowed area seems more important than where lime /fertilizer landed on edges. Or where I broadcast some by hand.

No weed killer used on the entire site since I've owned it. Other than a shovel to dig a thistle, or kukri , or scissors. No turned soil.

The best attracting spot is still that fallow area near the original plot that is mowed on occasion.
From August (last mowing if rain has anything over sixish inches tall) on that area stays cropped by the few deer.
Maybe an inch and a half tall before it snowed heavy enough to cover it.
Tonnage wise , it's on top of the economic lowest cost of worked ground on site.
If not for the aesthetics and cover the balance of fallow areas preset , I'd be tempted to expand that mowed site. There are narrow mowed areas connected. Some will be plotted . But the deer treat the largest open area like a destination plot. Not due to browse as much as open space. Yet the most browse over the past five years is probably simply mowed prior fallow ground. All volunteer forbs , grass,stuff that does not dry out or drown and tolerates browsing and mowing when not browsed enough.
And , the self mulching (and mowing duff) still works.

I'll scratch up the original plot. Again.
Drag it till the weeds pout and try a perennial under a nurse crop again.
I'll feed it synthetics.
Next fall deer will go by both sides of it again. Sneaking on the trail one side.
And browsing on the mowed fallow area beyond the other side.
Even if the new areas being planted the first time this year do well. They're not the same as that area with a deep established root layer. Keeping stuff tender and diverse. Cheaply...
 
I'm with you, Wild Thing. That's why I'm very surprised the guys at MSU, who are supposed to be cutting edge researchers, haven't gotten on board with regenerative ag. There must be more to the story. I'm sure they have their reasons. Guess I need to ask them.
A dollar of diesel is the same as a dollar of fertilizer.
Look at your total inputs.
Time is money
Farmers need something to sell. Food plotter’s don’t.
 
A dollar of diesel is the same as a dollar of fertilizer.
Look at your total inputs.
Time is money

Farmers need something to sell. Food plotter’s don’t.
This is true... and another major reason I won't ever go back to turning dirt. My seat time in the tractor is down 50% since I went no-till. 200+ hours/year to now only 100 hrs/year. I like that. It is also a savings on fuel and tractor maintenance.
 
Soil is by far the most expensive thing to change on a piece of property. Land owners fall into different groups.

Farmers are net exporters of what their land allows. They export animals, fruit, grain, hay or produce. All of those remove minerals from the soil that gets depleted and is replaced by mined minerals and synthetically produced compounds.
The remaining land owners are exporters of timber, mining or an occasional deer. The typical deer hunter does not remove much from the property over time aside from firewood. Nothing ready needs to be replaced but amended.

Food plotters are net importers of minerals in the form of lime, phosphorus and potash. All mined products aside from the inert material that are included to make up the balance of fertilizer. Nitrogen can be produced via legumes or imported via manure or urea or by industry.

It’s a fun activity no matter how you approach it.
 
Well.... can you get compost and lots of it ???

Here is what I had. I do lawns and had 1.5 acres of clay that was dug from a road way...you know that junk stuff. I have always said I could grow grass on a parking lot...well neither I or two other landscapers could grow grass on this junk...ph was way off and it was rock hard when summer hit. So started working in compost through aerations and reseeding. After three years it is nice but not perfect.

So...take soil samples to correct ph issues and other problems too. I used inorganics at this point....then I added and spread 6 tons of compost and worked it in by aeration then I slit seeded. This not only did this softened the soil it fed it also...starting organics. I have since added each fall more compost to those bad areas and seeded....It is working. I asked MSU to check it out 4 years ago...they told me to strip 4-6 inches of the dirt and put in good top soil. I did not do that but did the above...it worked for turf grass why not other crops ?

How large is your area ??
 
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