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Hunting deer inside fences is not a sport

8.5K views 81 replies 30 participants last post by  Adam Waszak  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This one took me away...



Tuesday, June 14, 2005

Hunting deer inside fences is not a sport

State wildlife officials want to know what Hoosiers think about hunting deer inside fenced properties.

So here’s our opinion:

We don’t think it even should be dignified with the name of hunting.

The state is conducting five public meetings this month on the issue. The second hearing, and the one nearest us, takes place tonight at 6 at the Salamonie Reservoir.

You can see the schedule of hearings or send an e-mail comment at dnr.in.gov/fencedhunting.

“Hunting deer behind fences is a topic that has been debated and discussed for a number of years,” said Kyle Hupfer, director of the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. “It is time that the DNR took a more assertive role and a decision is made once and for all whether fenced hunting is something that Hoosiers want in their state, and if allowed, what rules will govern such hunting.”

A special advisory group tackled the question in 2003 and 2004 and didn’t reach a decision. The Legislature looked at the issue this year and punted it back to the DNR.

Public comments to the advisory group weighed heavily against fenced hunting, however.

“Wild deer exist in every county of this state,” one person said. “The opportunity to hunt is abundant. Raising deer in a pen to later be shot for personal profit is not hunting. It does nothing but give hunting a black eye.”

We couldn’t agree more.

Right now, Indiana’s rules don’t make any distinction between hunting deer in the wild or in a fenced preserve.

A half-dozen deer-hunting preserves hold licenses in Indiana, according to state officials. A DNR official says raising deer in captivity to sell to these fenced preserves has become a growing industry.

“Hunting” in a fenced preserve amounts to shooting a tame animal that ultimately can’t run away and might even lack the instinct to do so.

You might as well shoot a dairy cow.

You don’t need good hunting skills to bag a deer in a fenced preserve. All you need is enough money to pay the preserve’s owner. The price may depend on the size of the deer you shoot.

What’s the attraction? A preserve can grow an impressive buck if it feeds him like a prize steer.

Taking a deer in a fenced preserve is not hunting. It’s just killing. You might get a big set of antlers for your trophy room, but how could you be proud of it?

The DNR has offered 19 possible rules for fenced hunting to discuss at its public meetings.

If we really needed fenced hunting in Indiana, they would be good rules. They require testing for chronic wasting disease, which is spreading to deer in Midwestern states. Some experts blame hunting preserves for transmitting CWD by importing animals from other states.

The DNR plan suggests allowing fenced deer hunting until 2015 and then banning it completely. That would allow the owners of hunting preserves to recover their investments and wind down their operations.

We don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who profit from fenced hunting. Five years should be enough for them to get out of this distasteful business. We’d rather see it go away immediately.

Real hunters have no problem finding deer in the wild in Indiana. Surely, a vast majority of Hoosiers recoil at the idea of hunting captive deer.

If you can’t shoot a “game” animal unless it’s tame, trapped and standing still, you shouldn’t be hunting at all.
 
#2 ·
Hey look at this monster deer I shot in Bitely! Only cost me $10,000 to do it too am I a good hunter or what? :yikes: I agree when it comes to these ranches in Mi especially. For the money you are better off getting a fully guided hunt in the wolds of Montana, Wyoming, Canada, Illiniois etc. It is not hunting to me either but its your money so go shootin if you want

AW
 
#3 ·
The difference there is that Indiana will show the guts to tackle this issue and address it. Michigan continues to cower to the special interest groups. Another point to be used in the defense of eliminating this disgraceful activity is the open disregard these game farms show for even the most basic regulations.

More power to Indiana for being willing to even talk about this.

Dan
 
#10 ·
Sib said:
Fishing at the fish hatchery ponds isn't allowed. Sounds like a good plan they've come up with, close em down and the state herd will be safer, bcause it's one less source of disease. I wish our
DNR would do the same.

State Fish hatcheries arent owned by private individuals.

I guess if they want to shut the private ranches down, they can shut down all the private trout farms, pheasant farms, etc. too....

I say "WHO CARES"!.... If someone wants to pay to hunt in a fenced in area why does that bother you, becasue you cant afford it?

I think we should concentrate on whats happening to our own herd before we start sticking our nose into someone elses.

Just my .02

CB
 
#11 ·
Does anyone have a link to that origional story?
 
#14 ·
It is a poor representation of the hunting population Brian that is what I think. Like I said drive by some of those ranches and look out the window at those deer starring at the road and all the people stopped to look. Now say those people are anti hunters and are watching the deer, bam one goes down what do you think that does for us as a hunting community? Can't be good can it? But those people will vote on issues like the dove bill etc won't they? Ya know Legends used to have elk too now that was a challenge I heard as they gunned em down in the corner of the fence so a rich guy could have his picture taken. Didn't we learn anything positive from Teddy Roosevelt? It is hunting not killing that we enjoy do I have a ton eof trophy racks at home now I have a few decent ones but they are legit deer that I am proud of. These animals have no business in trophy books either. The trophy has taken too much priority over the hunt lately with us hunters and that is too bad. Please you owe it to yourself to drive by the Legends ranch it really is comical to think there are a lot of hunting shows and video makers and "hunters" ingeneral who want to go back there year in and year out for the challenge :lol: Adventure Bound Outdoors- I'll never watch them again they talk about Jesus Christ alll show long and ethics and morals and doing what is right then they go shoot another Legends Buck and talk about how hard they had to work for this guy :lol: Whatever

AW
 
#15 ·
#17 ·
This is the link to IDNR debate. There's some good ideas there. Having a $250 deer farm license is a good idea. We'll all end up paying for more testing. If you can pay $10,000-20,000 for a deer, you can pick up $250 worth of the testing fees. I also like the 300 acre minimum for farms. That will make it so it's mostly bigger, professional operations. It's the small 10-40 acre family farms that seem to have the most holes in the fence, lack of testing, lack of sales rec's and tracking of animals in case of disease.
Take a look at the 19 talking points...
http://www.in.gov/dnr/fencedhunting/
 
#18 ·
Adam Waszak said:
It is a poor representation of the hunting population Brian that is what I think. Like I said drive by some of those ranches and look out the window at those deer starring at the road and all the people stopped to look. Now say those people are anti hunters and are watching the deer, bam one goes down what do you think that does for us as a hunting community? Can't be good can it? But those people will vote on issues like the dove bill etc won't they? Ya know Legends used to have elk too now that was a challenge I heard as they gunned em down in the corner of the fence so a rich guy could have his picture taken. Didn't we learn anything positive from Teddy Roosevelt? It is hunting not killing that we enjoy do I have a ton eof trophy racks at home now I have a few decent ones but they are legit deer that I am proud of. These animals have no business in trophy books either. The trophy has taken too much priority over the hunt lately with us hunters and that is too bad. Please you owe it to yourself to drive by the Legends ranch it really is comical to think there are a lot of hunting shows and video makers and "hunters" ingeneral who want to go back there year in and year out for the challenge :lol: Adventure Bound Outdoors- I'll never watch them again they talk about Jesus Christ alll show long and ethics and morals and doing what is right then they go shoot another Legends Buck and talk about how hard they had to work for this guy :lol: Whatever

AW
I don't like hunting inside a high fence either. But, I have no problem with those who want to do that. People have a right to spend their cash any way they see fit whether we agree or not.

How about Pheasant Preserves? They are sometimes fenced and many have birds that you practically have to pick up and throw to get them to fly. Should that be allowed?

Adam. You are making some assumptions about Legends Ranch. It is my understanding that the ownership of the Elk was not Legends Ranch. That property on the west side of M-37 was originally a private Elk Ranch and Legends bought it out and the Elk were moved out. As far as people stopping to look inside the fence....THEY are breaking the law. That area is posted "No Parking" due to the car accidents that have been caused by people who stop to look (most of whom are camo or orange clad, out of town hunters by the way). Talk about losing votes from non-hunters? Have a gawking, illegally parked truck full of hunters smash into a non-hunter and I'm sure according to your logic that could hurt hunting too. I think as hunters, we have a lot more serious problems to deal with when it comes to the image of hunters than fenced deer hunts.

Like I said, I have absolutely NO desire to ever hunt inside a high fence. But, for those who do, have fun. I also think that Legends and the Sanctuary have the right to use their private property however they see fit as long as it is legal to do so.
 
#19 ·
Woodsrat,
I wouldn't have an issue with them if there was no disease threat. But in the last audit, there was a ton of sloppyness on the part of smaller farms. Deer were bought and sold with no paper trail, no testing, holes in fences, lack of double fencing, etc. Now NY has CWD in a game farm. If Michigan gets CWD because of a deer farm, and our deer hunting is ruined, I would not want to be a deer farmer because a mob with lit torches will be after them. The risk-benefits ratio doesn't weigh in farms favor. There's a reason that Indiana may nip it in the bud. IMHO
 
#20 ·
I don't necesarily(sp?) think the big game farms should be shut down. But I do believe it is high time the state of michigan makes the fines so astronomically high for the violations, that the DNR could put a serious hurtin to the violators. As I stated in a previous thread, all it takes is 1 diseased cervid to come into this state on one of the MANY farms that were not in compliance with the basic fencing requirements, have that animal get out, and watch the powers that be decimate the deer herd in this state. Some people think they had a rough year last year seeing deer. Think of what it would be like if/when CWD is confirmed in Michigan. The DNR needs the authority to either shut down the ones who cannot seem to come into compliance, or fine them so bad they cannot afford to violate/operate.

I personally applaud the IDNR for tackling this issue. Maybe it's about time the michigan legislature starts doing what's right, instead of what pays the best.....
 
#21 ·
I have no problem with anyone hunting in an enclosure but it's not for me.

My biggest concern is disease that may have been imported into the enclosure and escapes into the wild. I feel the owner of the hunting operation should be required to have enough insurance to cover all costs that could be asscociated with any disease outbreak such as CWD. Remember that no enclosure is 100% escape proof.
 
#22 ·
I agree with Magnum and some of Bobs points on this one. Those smaller farms, on average are the under the radar type. I know the guys that started and run Sanctuary....they immediately put up a second fence at the onset of the TB scare...at a cost that you cannot believe for a fence! They have so much time and money invested in such an operation, they aren't about to try to circumvent the laws concerning disease issues. Wiping out the heard, would wipe out the business. (and eventually one of the Sanctuary pieces will be high dollar housing anyway.....is that any better?)
I have no interest in such a "hunt" but don't care if others want to. But I'm also not ready to jump on the "ban" bandwagon either.
The disease issue is certainly a big, big concern, but I think the bigger operations are not a threat in this instance.
As far as public acceptance, I won't bother to worry about it.....those folks don't accept hunting to begin with and they sure an hell won't start accepting it as soon as ranches are shut down. I'm not about to pamper their a$$ over thsi issue.
 
#23 ·
BOB@BBT said:
Woodsrat,
I wouldn't have an issue with them if there was no disease threat. But in the last audit, there was a ton of sloppyness on the part of smaller farms. Deer were bought and sold with no paper trail, no testing, holes in fences, lack of double fencing, etc. Now NY has CWD in a game farm. If Michigan gets CWD because of a deer farm, and our deer hunting is ruined, I would not want to be a deer farmer because a mob with lit torches will be after them. The risk-benefits ratio doesn't weigh in farms favor. There's a reason that Indiana may nip it in the bud. IMHO
BOB@BBT, I have to disagree with you.
If what your saying is true and its a risk factor, they need to make stricter laws and then enforce them. If a Doctor is sloppy with the way he disposses of his used needles and its a disease risk factor, should we eliminate all the Doctors?

I agree with Woodstrat
If people want to hunt in those ranches, so be it. Matter of fact the more hunters inside the fences, the better, it just gives me that much more room outside the fence :D

CB
 
#24 ·
Luv2, with the loss of deer hunting tourism dollars, bait sales, license losses and the blow to the beef industry with a big CWD outbreak, you'd have to have insurance for potentially hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in the long run.
What do you think the premiums on that would be? ;)
Could someone with a 20 acre pen afford a billion worth in insurance? :lol:
 
#25 ·
Cody, this whole tread is about stricter laws. A 300 acre minimum is a more strict rule. Not being able to sell animals would be good strict law too. That way no disease gets transfered. The only way an animal should leave the gates of a farm is frozen in a box.
Deer farms are like the war on terror. A CWD deer only has to come in once and those trying to catch it before it comes in has to be right 100% of the time.
If there wasn't the risk of losing everything, I wouldn't have an issue with the farms. But if pheasant farms were the source of a bird flu that could sweep the globe, I'd be against those too.
 
#26 ·
Closing game ranches because of health issues is one thing, but closing them because it isn't what you consider "true hunting" is ridiculous.

Theres a game ranch not far from where I hunt Adam. They have a screen across the fence for the entire perimeter. No one is gawking at the deer inside the fence. No one is seeing deer shot. Theres no anti-hunters protesting. There is no visible representation of the hunting population. Just a long, tall, screened fence.

As far as what goes on behind that fence, call it shooting, killing, harvesting, hunting, whatever. As long as its legal, its none of my business. Shouldn't be yours either.