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Reports for 09/28/2003

District 5
COs Bobbi Bashore, Craig Milkowski and Richard Stowe responded to an illegal deer killing/recreational trespass complaint, which turned out to be a youth deer hunt situation. The father had advised the youth to jump out of the vehicle and shoot a deer off the road on fenced, private farmland. The father was cited for recreational trespass and the deer seized.

DISTRICT 6
CO Jim Espinoza responded to a complaint Sunday, during the youth deer hunt, of a group of hunters who were seen entering a large parcel of private land, where one adult was observed carrying a rifle. After considerable walking, CO Espinoza was able to move into a position where he observed a father and son sitting together. Both of them had rifles. When the father saw the officer approach he threw his rifle into the brush. He admitted that he was trying to kill a deer.

DISTRICT 8
CO Jay Person ticketed a man for allowing his grandson to kill a deer during the youth hunt without a hunting license. The young hunter could not purchase a license because he had not taken hunters safety.

District 9
CO Dave Rodgers responded to a complaint of a 12-year old who had killed an eight-point buck with a rifle in the shotgun zone during the youth hunt. When CO Rodgers located the suspects, the deer was still untagged. CO Rodgers obtained a confession from both the juvenile and the adult.

District 11
CO Al Mendez encountered two groups of hunters during the youth hunt who had committed several violations. In one group, the young hunter did not have any hunter orange on, and the parent was issued a ticket. The second group was on an ORV. None of the three youths had helmets. The unlicensed ORV was being operated on the road. All three firearms were loaded, and none of the youths were wearing hunters orange. There were no adults with this group, and CO Mendez is contacting the various parents to discuss their kids being allowed to hunt without adult supervision.
 

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It's unbelievable how irresponsible parents can be. Some people say that kids aren't mature enough to handle hunting but I think alot of the parents are the ones who can't handle just sitting in the woods with their son or daughter and letting them have a good time.
 

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Yes this is terrible. It doesn't show that the Youth hunt is a bad thing. On the contrary, it shows that MORE TRAINING is needed. The parents in these cases are the ones who need to be trained. The penalty shoud be so great that only hardened criminals would dare try anything.

For all of those who did participate legally, Thanks for helping to promote our sport in a true sportsman fashion.
 

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Actually, that number of instances seems very small in the overall scheme. They all should be prosecuted fully, but I wonder how this compares to the percentage of violations compared to participants in the regular season?

I feel the adult's hunting rights should be revoked in most of those instances, not the youth's.

Dan
 

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Many more examples of bad and illegal behavior in local papers and on MON. I doubt the CO's catch 1% of the violators. I'd be all for an increase in deer tag fees if it was designated for increased CO's, patrols, etc.

Natty B.
 

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I agree with NB on this one. You're only seeing a portion of what happens in the field. Don't blame the action of a few to condemn the youth hunt. A poacher is a poacher no matter what the season.

TIP OF THE ICEBURG
It's too bad that the parents, who are supposed to be the mentor, are teacher youngsters to be poacher or at minimum a rule bender. You, as the mentor, lead by example. In fact make an example of the people who are caught.

I'm saying big fines but how about community service such as help man the deer check points during the rifle season. That will at least keep them from making more rule infractions the same year.
 

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Originally posted by Luv2hunteup
A poacher is a poacher no matter what the season.
DITTO


If there was no youth hunt those poachers might have still did what they did and gotten away with it and not got caught.
 

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That is a "small" percentage,,, but thats true with ALL criminals! Most don't get CAUGHT!! What do you think the percentages are of, "poachers" during this season, that did get caught and just didn't have it posted in the paper??
 

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Originally posted by Sarge
Yes this is terrible. It doesn't show that the Youth hunt is a bad thing. On the contrary, it shows that MORE TRAINING is needed.

This is part of an ongoing training program, slob hunters raising their kids to be just like dad!

This doesn't encourage me to lose any apprehension that I have about the youth hunt.
 

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Originally posted by Luv2hunteup
A poacher is a poacher no matter what the season.
I agree, the problem is not the youth hunt. These violators are the same guys who take rifles out to their bow stands. These guys have to cheat because they don`t know how to hunt. They are raising their kids the same way. What a shame.
 

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I honestly don't agree with this whole 'youth hunt' thing even going on. I mean the kids have 3 months to get a deer. That's not long enough? I know its solely for the purpose of getting young people in the outdoors, but scaring the deer sh*tless with shotguns and rifles before the bow season even begins probably makes a lot of people upset.
 

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Matt3ddsteel, I didn't know that there were so many youth hunters out there to scare the deer sh*tless. Could you please enlighten me with the number.
 

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I agree on the "principles" of the youth hunt. I disagree that its being held this early in the "season" or given a special season at all. As far as "poachers" go, this youth hunt is only a mask for someone to be shooting and get away with it. With out the season there would be no good reason to be in field with a gun! I don't agree that we need "another" season on top of all we have now! Bow: early & late season. Anterlerless; Early private, late private. Gun & Muzzleloader. I'm sure theres a couple more "special" hunts in there somewhere. What's the next group the state and/or DNR is going to be catering to? I'm a father and a hunter and outdoorsman. My kids love the outdoors and go with me during the regular rifle season, there not old enough to hunt yet but they really get into the hunt. The regular firearm season is long enough that I get some time to myself and my kids both. And when the time comes for my kids to be able to rifle hunt I'll not have a problem taking them out during the regular season and "hunt" with them, give them my undivided attention so they learn and later on be able to hunt on there own. These few bad apples may ruin it for all but I see no reason for a "special" season at all.
 

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but scaring the deer sh*tless with shotguns and rifles before the bow season even begins probably makes a lot of people upset.
Guess I better not small game hunt because I scare the deer. Oh, nobody better be out scouting because you scare the deer that way too.:eek:

With out the season there would be no good reason to be in field with a gun!
Excuss me, same as above :rolleyes:

I still believe the majority of youths will benefit from having a youth hunt. Come October 1st or November 15th or in October when the rut is in full swing do you really thing a large percentage of dad's or adults will take a kid out hunting or will they go hunt for themselves. Many of those adults will be paying more attention for themselves rather than the kid because it will be legal for them to hunt. I have found far too many kids sitting by their lonesome, right where dad put them with dad not even around for bow season and especially during gun season. Well I could go on but what is the use.
 

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Originally posted by boehr
............ Well I could go on but what is the use.
I agree with you, I'm getting the same attitude about this myself.

boehr, I wondered who'd be the one to read between the lines on my comment: "With out the season there would be no good reason to be in field with a gun!", didn’t think I had to write a novel to get my point across.

As far as your comment:

"Come October 1st or November 15th or in October when the rut is in full swing do you really thing a large percentage of dad's or adults will take a kid out hunting or will they go hunt for themselves. Many of those adults will be paying more attention for themselves rather than the kid because it will be legal for them to hunt. I have found far too many kids sitting by their lonesome, right where dad put them with dad not even around for bow season and especially during gun season."

What theory makes you think that person is any better a parent in September? Sorry my $.02 sounds so negative about this subject, I love and embrace the "principles" of it but I just don’t think its worth it.
 

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Matt3ddsteel...Oh well, my opinion too.:eek:
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I know a little about poachers and the youth hunt has nothing to do with reading between any lines. It's just fact. The theory for a better parent? That's a good question. Fortunately, for the most part, I don't believe those bad parents are the one posting on this site. In fact, most of the people that would bother to post on this site are more than likely to be a good parent and obey the current laws both during the youth hunt and during the regular seasons about accompanying a minor hunting. Based on a lot of experience in the field and not on a web site or any theory, of those that do hunt, both the good and bad parents, relatives, friends etc., given the opportunity to do something that is legal just for the kids verses allow the kids to participate in an activity that's for everyone does create a different atmosphere whether any choose to believe it or not. When an opportunity presents itself for a good parent to enjoy something they love and a special time for them to enjoy it with their kids, everybody wins. The parent doesn't have to worry about as many jerks being in the field, the kid has the parents complete attention and we get more kids interested in hunting. As for the bad parent, your right this does provide another opportunity to do poaching but do you really believe that 2 days a year is their only opportunity to be a poacher? They were likely poaching that weekend anyway many years before a youth hunt ever happened. There are even poachers out there who unfortunately happen to hunt with a bow on September 30 too and then with a bow or a gun the night before. What's my theory, the fact I had a tradition of working all night the day before bow season to catch the cheaters.

For the life of me I have not seen a good reason not to have a youth hunt. I see comments like, I didn't need one, the kids shoot bucks, poachers, selfishness, it messes up bow season, those are the comments. I just don't find them as very good reasons in my opinion. I never see many negative comments about the youth duck hunt. Why is that? I suspect percentage wise there is still just as much poaching that goes on during that hunt just like there is just as much poaching that goes on during any hunting season.

A property owner can control if hunting is allowed on the property during a youth hunt or any other legal hunting season so there is a lot of control over much of the land in this state. If this state didn't have so many deer and the population was completely under control then maybe I would feel different because there just might be a biological reason but right now, there is no reason.

Oh well, I stated "what's the use" then I started rambling, I'm outa here.
 
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