[Hamilton Reef]

One more argument that the game farms were responsible for the spread of CWD.

Post-Crescent - Reserve deer tests positive for CWD
Discovery in buck leads to quarantine of Beloit game farm

MADISON — Another whitetail buck killed at a game farm in Portage County has tested positive for a fatal brain disease, the state Agriculture Department said Friday.

http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_12708634.shtml

 

[antler333]

"One more argument that the game farms were responsible for the spread of CWD" I dont think so. You are either uneducated about CWD or are obviously biased in your views of the situation

Many of the WI positive domestic wildtails were actually derived from wild captive fawns given to game farms by the DNR for rehabilitation. This farm in particular is not any where near the wild WI outbreak, yet had gotten animals from within the now endemic S WI CWD area. Recently, A third case turned up on this farm that was born there, so it now may be a contaminated premises and thus becomes more problematical. but will be permanently quarentined and likely depopulated.

Remember dear sir, Opinions without facts are frivolous..............

 

[brokenarrow]

Antler333
I sure would like to read/see where you are getting YOUR facts from? If this is the case

Many of the WI positive domestic wildtails were actually derived from wild captive fawns given to game farms by the DNR

I have not read in any WDNR post about anything like that. Wow imagine that, what would the chances be that a fawn is captured because it was orphaned and then it was given to a gamefarm and it had CWD too!!! If that is the case wouldnt their be a law suit coming? Post your facts too please, it sounds to me like you have a affiliation with game farms, Do you?
I will be waiting to see the urls on where I can go to read about the WDNR giving infected fawns to these gamefarms. LOL

 

[antler333]

BA: My expertise is more in the line of Colo CWD history and lesser so on WI occurances, hoiwever, as documented per discussions on other forums, several people have mentioned that one game farm in So. Wi was entirely stocked with DNR rehabilitated fawns and that farm has been found to have CWD and additionally was a source of animals for the two other positive CWD white tail farms in WI. I have never talked directly with that farm owner, but as such, I think we all need to see better information about the WI occurances. who, what, when and where. Seems that the DNR has not published much on true epidemiology.

Personally, my evidence collected over the last year suggests that the U of WI at Madison, VET science dept is the source of all the wild and domestic white tail CWD in S. WI. A govt vet has personally declared seeing the shipping documents of deer from Co State University to the U of Wi many years ago. CSU together with the Co DOW research pens are the most contaminated pens in the world.

Further published papers document the presence of CWD infectivi,ty from CSU used to infect mink, ferrets and even monkeys with CWD AT THE U OF WI....with no doumentation of how the infectivity or carcasses were ever disposed of. the first CWD cases were found within 15 miles of a U of WI field research station, a WI VET PROF has a house and land in or near the initial CWD infection area. NO lie...........

Yes I am affiliated with cervid farms, I am the largest elk meat retailer in the state of Colorado, a former major elk rancher and also a trained forensic scientist and co-founder of the non-profit CWD Foundation here in CO. My recent, very comprehensive scientific studies have been posted at www.stopcwd.org in the library. Read the papers and particularly the Chronic Connumdrum to see a different view of CWD from what you ususally hear about. That and succeeding papers are an epidemiological study which documents the likely transfer of CWD from the wild elk and deer to domestic elk herds in CO.

Many people dont want to here that....but the evidence is signficant.

 

[Fierkej]

Hi antler333,

Are you R.A. Forrest? I took a look at the website you listed. If you are R.A. Forrest, it appears that your articles are in draft form and are not peer-reviewed published articles in scientific journals. Is this correct?
Other articles you list also do not seem to have been published.
Please list the published articles supporting your assumptions, along with the articles journal references.

Thanks
Jean

 

[antler333]

Jean: Ahhhh someone with knowledge of the subject matter at hand! Great!

You are correct, Antler333 and R.A. Forrest are one in the same. You are also correct that the articles are review drafts, have NOT been peer reviewed and have NOT been published in hard copy anywhere else. NOR I am not actively attempting to get them published. As such, my goal was to consolidate a vast amount of divergent research information into a cohesive picture of TSE disease, and then apply those observations to CWD and its origins. I think if you read them fully and methodically, you would be impressed, this is not just idle speculation. ALL FACTS ARE REFERENCE CITED, THE REFERENCE LIST IS AT THE END OF EACH PAPER. The conclusions are my own. Junk science, gray science, pure science…you be the judge. I welcome the inquiry…dialogue is what I am after.

TSE’s are a group of diseases, which seem to have, and continue to confound the medical research community. After decades, still no causal agent has been established…… PERHAPS a new and different thinking pattern is necessary? Out side the box, as they say. I have no preconceived box on my thinking like some might have.

In terms of personal past publications, unless you want to go back to my Montana School of Mines days, decades ago, there are none outside thousands of private files. Further my expertise is NOT formerly medically oriented, but is however acutely focused on the scientific method of review and postulate, prove and review. My goal is not to publish papers but the solve the issue at hand. The scientific method works in all disciplines. Geology, geochemistry, geophysics, statistics, animal husbandry, molecular biology? I’ll learn and do what is necessary. My own animals died because of CWD. I was up close and personally exposed to it on my hands, on my face, on my property. It has permeated my family’s life, we were persecuted for having it on our farm. I want this disease solved!

My background is that of a highly trained and successful, forensic, private industry earth scientist, for which publishing is NOT the ordinary way of using research information. Private industry usually hordes data for profit making motives, and publishes little. I am of the scientific research establishment for 3 decades, but from the exact opposite of academia and govt, which alternatively adheres to the “publish or perish” dogma. As such, I am breaking tradition by sharing controversial information with the world so as to help stimulate a solution…. All the while pursuing the goal with private funds. I have no need of govt grants nor political correctness, which seems to permeate the prion research community.

While a few of the cited references are unpublished, the vast majority are fully credible. and even the unpublished data is from reliable sources. As such, if you will methodically read the papers you will find the data and derived conclusions to be CONTROVERSIAL but scientifically sound. Remember, my papers are predominately review articles attempting to combine literally hundreds of previously published AND peer reviewed articles into a cohesive picture of TSE disease focused on CWD, the version which I believe will provide the understanding for which all TSE’s will be solved.

I note that you are employed at a govt lab….probably using the test da jour “Gold Standard” for TSE testing. As a geochemist, I am highly suspicious of these tests, as NO INTERFERENCE studies have been preformed. Yes they work on abnormal prion protein derived from a TSE disease…but for what else?……..papers 1A and 1B pop that bubble. Early in the infection cycle TSE’s cannot be detected? Baloney, symptoms are present. Read 2 B. The agent undetermined? Guess again. 1 A& B place it on a silver platter. Quite simply, a bacteria can and does produce identical TSE symptoms in small mammals. The same bacteria tests positive to abnormal prion antibodies. Your ELISA tests can react to this bacteria. Co incidence? No I don’t think so…… You read, you decide. The method of transmission unclear? Read 2A and later papers. It ALL FITS!

With that I conclude. I would appreciative any questions you may want to ask. Critically review my data and conclusions and I will take the time to respond. TO quote an active state vet “ This is the only CWD theory I have ever seen that COVERS ALL THE BASES”

Ask away………………………..

 

[brokenarrow]

Antler333
So what is your conclusion on how your animals became infected? If I may ask, how many or how much of your herd died
or were put down? Were you able to continue farming elk on the same land or pens that were infected? Has Colorado banned you from selling your meat on the open market, because I thought you said you were selling elk meat? I had no idea that your farm is infected with CWD, and I am very sorry to hear that! I wouldn't of been such a smart a$$ with you if I had known because I know how attatched some of you guys are to your animals.
Once again sorry to hear that.
Brokenarrow.

 

[antler333]

NO need to apoligize. CWD is not a major disease, if you dont count the politics and the media coverage. All Colorado elk ranchers have been CWD testing for years. I even helped create the first draft CWD testing proposal. We have been dealing with this stuff for many years.

Back in FAll of 01 I had one elk cow die of CWD and in FEB 02, 346 critters were "depopulated". From those animals, a championship bull was perhaps just starting to turn clinical. Both positives were derived from a NE Colo farm that was located in the endemic COLO. area. Those cases are believable. Turned out that farm had been exposed to CWD for several years and I got a couple of the few which turned out to be infected. The original source of the disease to the source ranch was the wild endemic area elk and deer, directly or indirectly. According to UNVERFIED and unchecked testing reports, and NO DNA confirmation that the animal was mine, a third animal was supposedly just developing CWD. I have demanded additonal testing but was ignored.

As such my land was quarentined and I am prohibited from having elk for 5 years. A lawsuit against the State of CO is up for trial in August of 04.

MY meat business is separate from the elk farm. I buy meat animals from dozens of producers here in CO and have USDA facilities produce my products for retail distribution in CO and NM, plus all over the US via the internet. ALL meat animals are fully USDA inspected and CWD inspected prior to release of the meat to the food chain. It is the safest, most inspected meat in North America.... tastes good too! Inspected Commerial elk and deer meat is ALWAYS tested everywhere in the USA. NOT SO FOR WILD MEAT. The scare is helping meat sales..................



The CWD problem is real personal to me, and since I have the training, the time and the money to persue the solution, I do...aggressively! many people are starting to follow.

Irregardless of the multitude of drivel out there from poor informed govt people, and from the media, CWD is not the bugaboo everyone thinks it is. Its a man-manipulated, minor wildlife disease that is not a major threat to the wild cervid population. yes its needs to be controlled, but the hysteria surrounding it is screwing up the science and regulation.