Whitetail Antlers

ummmmmm.... well I support hunter conservation and the "let em go let em grow" viewpoint but anytime I see on a show that a hunter will let an 8pt with a decent rack go by because he knows "there are bigger deer out there"..... wish I could say the same in my area, not now, but maybe someday. Oh and then the 10 with 12 inch tines does come in shortly thereafter...
Well, you get my drift. Maybe the saying should be, let 'em go, better show.

I saw one hunt on an older video where some realtree people hunted "the sanctuary" in Michigan. I figure it is a ranch but where? Crazy big deer on the inside of those fences.

the deer in the "sanctuary" range from $10,000 - 20,000 a hunt yes big deer but yes high fence but alot of land , its located over north of grand rapids If I remember. I contacted them to find out how much after seeing a show and about fell over when the book they sent me had pictures of guys like dale earnhardt and richard childress hunting their!!! Its out of my league....heck I'm still saving to go to saskatchen in a year or to

...how many "Game ranches" there were in Michigan untill I picked up a Woods and Water magazine.

http://www.at-the-rack-ranch.com
http://www.whitetailacres.com
http://www.legendsranch.com/
http://www.paradicehuntclub.com/ParadiceFrameset-2.html


There are so many...

Some give 100% sucess rates and in the next breath call it "close to fair chase conditions" on an 80- acre parcel!

I think the MAJORITY of the TV stuff is ranch hunts.

I don't think A-way is, Eastman's hunting journal, and some crew from scent blocker leased a parcel near here that displaced a buddy of mine last year. Real colse to state land as well.

Ya know...I was watching these shows the other day on tv with all big deer with big racks all over the place. Made me wonder if all these shows have degraded the "normal" hunting experience for the average joe blow? These shows could breed the mentality that the quality of the hunt is determined by the size of the rack!! These shows also don't help with the take a doe once in awhile. If it doesn't have horns don't shoot.

Anyways...my .02 on hunting shows regardless if they are canned or not.

Scot

Originally posted by Trushot_Archer
...how many "Game ranches" there were in Michigan untill I picked up a Woods and Water magazine.

Click to expand...

I didn't vote in the poll, as I agree with Essox.

However, I will comment.

According to an article in the November '02 issue of Deer & Deer Hunting, Michigan LEADS the nation in the number of deer/cervid game farms/"hunt" ranches. I put the word hunt in quotations because I do not believe it is anywhere near "fair chase".

The article, it was definately negative towards "high fence" deer/cervid farms, went on to say that TB was first found in Michigan in a fenced deer herd in Presque Isle County. CWD was first found in penned deer in Coloarado. The spread of CWD over such a large area.........from Colorado to Saskasawaun to Wisconsin in such a few years is due, it is suspected, to the transportation of live deer from one deer/cervid farm to another.

I liken it to a 3-d archery range. X amount of deer over the true carrying capacity, to the point that it would be impossible to get skunked. Certainly not hunting, mere collecting. I see no difference in someone purchasing a trophy on ebay like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3645348980&category=22702
Than someone purchasing the antlers on the hoof, like they do on a barrell shoot ranch. Hmm, actually there is one difference, the purchaser on ebay will save enough to purchase a brand new vehicle, or a heck of a fishing boat. But, then again, for those that shoot at caged animals, money is never the issue.

I know more farmers that haven given fair chase after livestock that have gotten outside of their pen than what you'd find on a deer kennel hunt.

The hunting rags share some blame for this, also. After all, where do you find out infor about these places? The rags accept the advertising dollars and help market these packages. And as mentioned in another thread, we hunters share responsibility, too. We put too much emphasis on the antlers. Let's have a biggest doe contest in 2004, I'm yet to see one and I've seen some mighty big does in my 25 years of deer hunting.

I didn't vote in the polls either.....you guys are supporting those shows by buying the stuff the sponsors advertise; if you demanded 'real' hunting shows where the hunter comes up empty handed more often than not, maybe the focus of deer hunting could go back to 'deer hunting' instead of the "cult of the antler". Tell the sponsors you won't buy there products because you don't feel the hunts are real, and you might see some change....then maybe we can get back to deer hunting instead of antler hunting. If the focus is shifted back to hunting 'deer' instead of hunting 'antlers', those chunks of bone on top of a bucks head will become as worthless as they are, and the deer preserves will slowly dry up.
The hunting rags have to bear some of the responsibility? How about the hunters that read those magazines? How about the hunters who just have to have an 8 point or better, with a 12 inch G2 & 57" spread? Whatever happened to hunting deer for the sake of hunting deer? Why has this "cult of the antler" taken prominence over deer hunting over the last several years? I remember when the only reason you needed "antlers" was to identify a legal deer.....if they were big antlers, it was a bonus, but nothing more. The idea of looking down your nose at someone because they shoot a spike, and only a "real" deer hunter gets a "big antlered buck" tends to perpetuate the stereotype. (I'm sure that the 15 year old kid who shot that potential world record buck in Indiana or Illinois or whereever the hell it is has been hunting deer for billions of years......he had to be to be such a great hunter to get a deer like that....there is no way that any type of "luck" could be involved in hunting.)

Now, we are focused more on the "antlers" than the venison!

As far as the transmission of CWD and game farms, I will say this: If you look at other spongiform encephalopathies, such as Kuru in humans and Mad Cow disease, the MAJOR form of transmission is from EATING infected animal parts! Kuru is found in the peoples of New Guinea who practice cannibalism, and mad cow disease was caused by feeding the ground up parts of cattle back to cattle as a source of protien in animal feed.

Now, go and check what is contained in some of those damn "antler growing" blocks you fellows who just have to have big antlered deer are throwing out there to "grow" your own Rompola buck. Betcha it contains "animal protien". That would explain how CWD appears in several different areas as well, esp. in areas where there are NO preserves.

btw, I have no clue as to what a "G2" is, nor do I care.....nor do I care what constitutes a "good" spread; I have always hunted deer for the venison and 'the hunt', which is one reason why I quit hunting the rifle and bow season and just hunt muzzleloading season.....too many jerks in the woods that just got to have a buck with big antlers! Even the muzzleloading season is becoming ruined now due to idiots taking 300 yard shots with inlines. Used to take some skill to take a deer with a smokepole; now just stuff your gun with prepacked pellets, shove you plastic sabot down the bore of your stainless steel barrel, and site down the scope at an unsuspecting deer 200 yards away and put an expanding, jacketed slug in it's chest as it eats over a bait pile.

There are MANY fine shows out there of FAIR CHASE hunting.

Guys like Will Primos, Mark and Terry Drury, Fitzgeralds, and others that maybe hunt GREAT property and great lands, but arent high fences.

Realtree, does a little of both and MOST shows on the Outdoor channel are from the game farms.

I am getting real tired of people always looking in the past and saying WHY HUNT FOR ANTLERS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,WELL

BECAUSE I CAN!!!! Man I can hunt, and hunt land that produces good whitetails, venison is too easy to harvest, so FOR ME, I want to hunt for a trophy and ...............I CAN!!!!

I dont tell someone else HOW they should hunt but try to educate them if they WANT to shoot better bucks, what works with me might work with them.

The future of deer hunting HAS changed from the traditional past. IT is a big business and isnt JUST shooting deer for venison. For some it is still true, but for many its not.

Oh well, its like anything else, everyone has their own opinions.

Antlers are what give a deer its character. Sure each deer have there own character to an extent but for the most part, seen one doe, seen em all pretty much fits. Doesn't mean people (including myself) don't like to see pictures of does, it's just the bucks that get the heart pumping for the majority of folks. Antlers have driven deer hunting since the fall of market hunting.
I'm tired of all this criticism towards those that want to shoot big bucks (I'm not talking about the guy behind the fence either). Why should he or she be criticized or treated any differently than the person that wants to shoot any buck. Talk about a double standard!
The hunt is about much more than small buck/big buck/doe. The hunt is what you make it, plain and simple.

But what do I know, I just learned to tie my shoes last week, thats why I got me one of them thar shiny inline guns...

I don't think anyone is criticizing people who want to shoot big bucks.....I think the criticism is aimed at those who wish to shoot big antlered deer to the exclusion of those who just wish to take a deer for meat.....be it spike, doe, or button buck. The focus of the TV and magazines is the rack.....I've never heard the host say "man, what a deer....I bet he wieghs 275 dressed!". No, it's "Man, what a deer......I'll bet he'll score 205 in the B&C book". So this is what hunting big racked deer is about? Seems to me that if the 'hunt is what you make it', then the ultimate challenge for someone who wants to take a deer with a large set of antlers would be to take one from a heavily hunted peice of land.....not try and grow them with mineral supplements and then whine when someone shoots a spike because "next year that would have been my 8 point....boo hoo."
I shoot spikes because I CAN.....if you wish to take big antlered deer because you CAN and it makes you feel good about yourself, then go for it.....but don't start whining about how my shooting spikes is a detiriment to your "rack hunting". I don't find hunting whitetails all that easy; I don't take that many deer.....maybe I suck at it. But I still try and I still enjoy it.....but all this whining about how my shooting a spike is costing you your 8 point is getting a little tiring.
Fact of the matter is, when I started deer hunting, ANY antlered deer was a trophy.......if you find it too easy, maybe you ought to find another pursuit?