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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What does it take to drive it in people's heads that there is some thought process in shooting anterless deer? Yes, mistakes are made but I personally find it repulsive when a button buck is harvested.

There should be a renewed emphisis on teaching hunters how to dsitinguish between a fawn buck and a doe. Two guys at my camp shot two button bucks this weekend and all they had to say for themselves was "Aw shucks, I thought it was doe". Totally inexcusable IMO
 

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It's legal to shoot a button buck if you have a doe tag, but if they were trying to only harvest a doe then I think they need to be a little more patient and know the distinct differences between a doe and a button buck. Most expierenced Hunters can tell the difference. I for one would not shoot a fawn of either sex, thats just me.
 

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:rant: No, not the management forum!!!!! I agree totally. Whether they had the doe tag or not they didn't know what they were shooting when the pulled the trigger. That is generally BS and belongs in this forum. Shooting hen phesants, or hen turkeys is not acceptable and people can tell the difference. If you can't tell and you make a mistake like these guys admitted to than they are unsafe people to be firing weapons in the Michigan woods. That just stinks in my opinion, "it was dark I couldn't see the nubs!!!" They probably wouldn't have been able to see the people walking through the woods behind the them either. Should be booted from camp!!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
William H Bonney said:
If they had an anterless tag, what difference does it make?

"Management Forum", please.
Not to start a debate however, I believe thet there is a big difference. That is, if you aspire for older, larger-antlered deer. If you feel however that all anterless deer are simply a "commodity" to be harvested irrespective of its consequence going forward, then blam away.

I sinceley believe that most hunters, bow or firearm, would pass on shooting a button buck, all things considered. The thing is, they have a choice; the first one is don't shoot!

Buttom bucks, are easy to identify: (1) its very small, (2) it typically travels alone (versus with an adult doe), (3) it has a short, blunt snout, (4) its tail is disporportianately large for its torso (5) it typically is the first animal into a bait pile or food plot during an afternoon hunt (6) it has these bumps on its head that can be seen with the human eye when viewed close up or with a good set of binoculars.
 

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I am with you Bardo. One of my hunting buddies brought his cousin up this year. The weekend before gun opener he got one with his bow. I returned to camp an hour after dark, grabbed a cold one and went over to the fire. After about 15 minutes I asked if he saw anything that evening? He replied yeah one doe. When I asked if it gave him a shot, he said yeah, it's over there. I went over and looked at it in the dark. Standing over the deer I could see the nubbins. He said no its not a button buck it is a doe. Once he put his hand on the nubbins he said that he has cleaned many deer and knows the difference. I laughed and dissagreed with his knowlege. He claimed that it had a female anatomy. I did not get to see the gut pile. I have not shot a button buck yet. And hope to never get one. It happens and I try to understand, but I know what I am shooting at....so should everyone else. If that is what you want to shoot great, but do not say "I thought it was a doe." That being said, I have jinxed myself and will probably shoot a button next time out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
live2bowhunt said:
Bardo,

Would you have been mad if they were to shoot a spike or a four point?
I would be upset but for different reasons: we have strict rules at our camp that any buck must have at least 4 points on one side. Break the rule, you pay $250 to the general fund and you buy dinner and drinks at the local pub for any/all people (members and guests) in the camp that evening. It's enforced and we collect. Makes for a VERY expensive deer when 8 hungry and thirsty folks are in camp and you drag in a six point.
 

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Ok, That's legit then. i can see where you are coming from. The one thing that I don't get from other people is that they get so mad when someone shoots a bb but could care less when some shoots a small buck such as a spike or fork. To me there is no difference in that and shooting a bb. Neither buck will reach it's growing potential.
 

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Sounds like you need to add BB to the list and fine for taking them. Personally, I think it's a real bad idea for people to shoot lone does. Reason one, you can't judge size as well as you could if you have two deer side by side. Reason two, button bucks are kicked away from mom (disbursement) this time of year and there's a good chance that a 'lone doe' is actually a BB. Reason three, does will hang with other does and their female offspring and are more often seen in small groups, than as lone animals.

As Neal said, education is the key.
 

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You can always reference other hunter's to the DNR's deer hunting guide. It has excellent information on how to ID button bucks.

FWIW, I'm bothered less by the occasional harvest of a button buck than I am the harvest of a yearling buck. The former is frequently an accident, performed while a hunter is attempting to harvest a doe, while the latter is a deliberate, pre-meditated act.
 

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MuskyDan said:
:rant: No, not the management forum!!!!! I agree totally. Whether they had the doe tag or not they didn't know what they were shooting when the pulled the trigger. That is generally BS and belongs in this forum. Shooting hen phesants, or hen turkeys is not acceptable and people can tell the difference. If you can't tell and you make a mistake like these guys admitted to than they are unsafe people to be firing weapons in the Michigan woods. That just stinks in my opinion, "it was dark I couldn't see the nubs!!!" They probably wouldn't have been able to see the people walking through the woods behind the them either. Should be booted from camp!!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
From what I'm reading in the original post, the shooters knew they were shooting at a deer. One they had a legal right to do. There was no mention of it being dark, nor that there were any other hunters near where the shot the BB. I think you're really reaching here.

Mistakes are occasionally made, even by veteran hunters, when identifying a BB.
 

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Bardo said:
Two guys at my camp shot two button bucks this weekend and all they had to say for themselves was "Aw shucks, I thought it was doe". Totally inexcusable IMO
Is your camp on private property? If so, the owner does have the right to decide what type of deer can be harvested. If you are on public land and have a gentleman's agreement to fines for lesser bucks than maybe you should add button bucks to the list. In my area however, I would be happy to see a doe tag used on a button buck knowing that one of the few doe in the area had been spared.
Personally, I would NEVER shoot a deer under 1.5 years of age. I do realize however that half the doe permits in Michigan are used on fawns, and half of these fawns are button bucks. They are also the hardest hit for winter kill and sound management might even call for thinning them out a bit. Legal is legal, that is the bottom line for me. I don't really judge other hunters; I tend to congratulate them regardless of the situation. <----<<<
 

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Do you only take monsters at your camp?
Wow your camp is pretty strict, thats a harsh penelty.
I can understadning not wanting to take bb's but i mean accidents do happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
farmlegend said:
You can always reference other hunter's to the DNR's deer hunting guide. It has excellent information on how to ID button bucks.

FWIW, I'm bothered less by the occasional harvest of a button buck than I am the harvest of a yearling buck. The former is frequently an accident, performed while a hunter is attempting to harvest a doe, while the latter is a deliberate, pre-meditated act.
As I said, mistakes are made. Regrettably once the button buck is dead, there is no accountability to the act (intentional or not). But to your point, which is a good one incidentally, if you diliberately shoot a buck with less than 4 on one side, it can become very expensive. Case in point; last year a guy at my camp arrowed a six point. Being that it was opening day, there we many folks in camp. He paid his $250 (not without some grumbling) and bought dinner for all that very night. Gotta tell ya, most folks really develope a taste for single malt scotch when somebody else is paying for it, not to mention dissert!
 

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Seems to me it comes down to the standards that you set for yourself. If you want more and larger bucks you must pass on BBs and small-racked males. If you just want a deer, anything legal will do. In fact, if you're in the latter group, getting a BB probably improves your hunting since more does are available to bear more fawns for next year's hunt. Personally, I'm kind of between these two groups, I want a deer but I've gotten enough that I don't need to shoot the first one. But if the freezer is empty and it's getting late in the season, if it's brown it's down. While I've not shot a BB in many years I don't have a problem with those who do. One thing I would like to see changed is that if/when you shoot a BB you MUST tag it with a buck tag if you have one. FWIW, John-Ypsi.
 

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ted stehney said:
I am with you Bardo. One of my hunting buddies brought his cousin up this year. The weekend before gun opener he got one with his bow. I returned to camp an hour after dark, grabbed a cold one and went over to the fire. After about 15 minutes I asked if he saw anything that evening? He replied yeah one doe. When I asked if it gave him a shot, he said yeah, it's over there. I went over and looked at it in the dark. Standing over the deer I could see the nubbins. He said no its not a button buck it is a doe. Once he put his hand on the nubbins he said that he has cleaned many deer and knows the difference. I laughed and dissagreed with his knowlege. He claimed that it had a female anatomy. I did not get to see the gut pile. I have not shot a button buck yet. And hope to never get one. It happens and I try to understand, but I know what I am shooting at....so should everyone else. If that is what you want to shoot great, but do not say "I thought it was a doe." That being said, I have jinxed myself and will probably shoot a button next time out.
Big Jim and the twins eh? Sounds like he knew what he shot but tried to cover his behind.
 

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Most button bucks are pretty darn easy to identify. But I'm not going to cast the first ston on someone that claimes they made an honest mistake. I have had numerous does traveling alone this year. I sure can't explain why this is but it is. ONe paticular day I saw 2 does come in. They were in the area for about 5 minuits then left continuing thru away from the direction they came. With in a few minuits I had another deer come in from the same direction the does had comes in. The deer wasn't quite as large as I was hoping so I held off and debated in my own mind on wether it was big enough or not. I'm sitting 20 feet up in a tree and the deer are no further than 20 yards away. But I was still having a hard time determining it's size. I decided to glass it and I still was undecided. The whole time, mind you, I was thinking it's a doe. After about 20 minuits and the deer coming another 10 yards closer (now almost directly below me) I could tell it's a buck.

I've been hunting quite along time and I harvest both bucks and does for my freezer. I honestly could say this little buck had me fooled! :tdo12:
 
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