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Hey all.

Unfortunately, I checked in on my summer food plot. Main goal is soul building.

I say unfortunately because as I pulled up to the plot I noticed something strange. I could find much evidence that I even planted something.

That is to say that I planted Green Cover Seed's summer release back on May 8. I immediately crimped with foot crimpers that shiped out the rye from last fall. It did t touch the clover which I'm happy with.

We've had a ton of rainfall. As in record setting over the past few months.

I cleared a wooded area adjacent to my fall plot in order to expand it. The new expansion was blown with a leaf blower to expose the soil from 4" of leaf cover.

That portion of the plot has corn, beans, buckwheat all doing well.

I'm just blown away by the fact that I don't seem to find any evidence of those species in the existing plot. Is there such a thing as too much thatch?

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Hey all.

Unfortunately, I checked in on my summer food plot. Main goal is soul building.

I say unfortunately because as I pulled up to the plot I noticed something strange. I could find much evidence that I even planted something.

That is to say that I planted Green Cover Seed's summer release back on May 8. I immediately crimped with foot crimpers that shiped out the rye from last fall. It did t touch the clover which I'm happy with.

We've had a ton of rainfall. As in record setting over the past few months.

I cleared a wooded area adjacent to my fall plot in order to expand it. The new expansion was blown with a leaf blower to expose the soil from 4" of leaf cover.

That portion of the plot has corn, beans, buckwheat all doing well.

I'm just blown away by the fact that I don't seem to find any evidence of those species in the existing plot. Is there such a thing as too much thatch?

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Hard to know for sure what's going on, but I have a couple comments/questions. May 8th seems early to be crimping, even in OK. Maybe not. Was it rye that you crimped and were the seeds in the "dough" stage? Does it appear the the rye was adequately terminated? Is it possible the clover is preventing the germination of your Green Cover mix? Is it possible it has germinated, but really hard to see among the clover?

This "soul" building stuff can be tricky.
 

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771259

For whatever it's worth, I experiment by throwing different seeds in established clover all the time. Last July I broadcast a brassica mix into my clover. To jr's point, if I had not used an exclusion cage, it would have been hard to know if the brassicas even germinated. This picture was taken in October.
 

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This is my stand of rye from last year it was thick so I doubled the rate turnip seed and it came out great.This year is the fourth year and my soil test get better each year . View attachment 771278
So you broadcast turnips into your rye last summer and then rolled the rye? Did you also include more rye last year so you could repeat the process this year?
 

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Here are some pics from the Treehouse Plot I took today. Appear to be new plants germinating. Hopefully they are the peas and/or buckwheat that I sowed.

Rye/wheat didn't stay totally laid down, but doesn't seem to be doing well.
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Another angle, same spot.
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Clover from last fall popped right through after the foot crimp.
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This plot was relatively difficult to crimp because it was thick, and the thatch is not hurting my germ rate. Seemingly. But I am a rookie with all this, so keep that in mind. And I only spent 5 minutes back there before my allergies took off. Wow, I'm allergic to something like crazy.
 

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So you broadcast turnips into your rye last summer and then rolled the rye? Did you also include more rye last year so you could repeat the process this year?
No I rolled mid June sprayed with gly and left fallow until 1st of August sprayed again and broadcast turnip seed .Enough of the seed made it’s way though to provide a nice crop . Seeded with more rye in September with the turnips for this years thatch .It’s 5 ft tall and almost ready to roll down again .I added radish with the turnips also .
 

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Here are some pics from the Treehouse Plot I took today. Appear to be new plants germinating. Hopefully they are the peas and/or buckwheat that I sowed.

Rye/wheat didn't stay totally laid down, but doesn't seem to be doing well.
View attachment 771304

Another angle, same spot.
View attachment 771309


View attachment 771305

Clover from last fall popped right through after the foot crimp.
View attachment 771306

View attachment 771307

View attachment 771308

This plot was relatively difficult to crimp because it was thick, and the thatch is not hurting my germ rate. Seemingly. But I am a rookie with all this, so keep that in mind. And I only spent 5 minutes back there before my allergies took off. Wow, I'm allergic to something like crazy.
Did you try to determine if the rye seeds were at the right stage when you crimped?
 

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Can you really have "Too Much Thatch"??

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Maybe not a fair comparison since I drill my seed into the thatch. That being said, as long as you can get good seed to soil contact you should get germination - at least with smaller sized seeds and larger seeds like cereal rye. Large seed like corn, beans, cowpeas, etc, really do much better if you can get them covered with soil. Leaf cover can be problematic and it is good to blow them off with a backpack blower if you can.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Can you really have "Too Much Thatch"??

View attachment 771321

View attachment 771323

View attachment 771324

View attachment 771325

View attachment 771326

View attachment 771327

Maybe not a fair comparison since I drill my seed into the thatch. That being said, as long as you can get good seed to soil contact you should get germination - at least with smaller sized seeds and larger seeds like cereal rye. Large seed like corn, beans, cowpeas, etc, really do much better if you can get them covered with soil. Leaf cover can be problematic and it is good to blow them off with a backpack blower if you can.
I knew there was no such thing but couldn't figure for the life of me what was causing it.

Another RAP enthusiast suggested that the reason the two side by side plantings are different could be that more energy is required to get those seeds to sprout under the thatch which could delay them compared to no thatch which would encourage quick sprouting. Your thoughts?

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Did you try to determine if the rye seeds were at the right stage when you crimped?
Well, I took a lesson from my buddy:

“But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you. - Job 12:7-8 BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

So, when I stepped into the meadow with foot crimper in hand, I said "Guess what time it is?"

The rye said, "Doh!"

And I knew I'd be just fine.

Actually, I asked Jon Teater on Habitat Chat fb group for some insight. He seemed to think pending rain was a greater factor than seed head maturity. So I took that advice, looked at my schedule, and moved forward with sowing and crimping. I cannot say for sure what the dough stage looks like. The seeds were green, "hairy" and carried some moisture. But the seeds were not bulbous. Some of the stuff in my garden swelled quite a bit more in the two weeks since I foot crimped. So I think I was pre-dough stage in the Treehouse Plot. I'm learning as I go. And the backyard Habitat Lab is helping. There were 8 tree trimmers working on my pears and apples Tuesday morning. Most were bucks.
 
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