Michigan Sportsman Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As an avid outdoorsmen, hunter, fisherman, hiker, and boater, I thank you, and my grandchildren thank you. Nice job.

http://www.msnbc.com/local/keci/58804.asp

Clinton signs roadless initiative

NBC Montana

MISSOULA – It’s the biggest move of its kind in US history and it comes in the final days of the Clinton Administration.



In his last days of office, President Clinton is trying to rival Teddy Roosevelt, who set aside more public land than anyone else has. On Friday, Clinton signed a roadless initiative affecting land in 39 states, including our forests here in Montana.
On Friday at the National Arboretum, President Clinton approved an initiative that will eventually put nearly 60 million acres in 39 states off limits to road construction, including 6.4 millions here in Montana and nine million acres in the northern region.
Director of Ecosystem Assessment and Planning Rick Roberts said, “What the president proposed today would put a prohibition in place for that nine million acres for future road construction and reconstruction.”
Major national forests included are Pagoda Peak in Colorado, the American River’s North Fork in California, and Alaska’s Tongass National Forest.
Roberts said, “Within the state of Montana the forests that will be affected a lot are the Bitterroot National Forest, Beaverhead, and Kootenai National Forest.”
However, the order signed by Clinton does not eliminate any existing access or restrictions on permits or contracts that are already in place.
Roberts said, “Any OHV use, outfitter guide use, or recreational use that is happening today or exists today will continue under this plan.”
This plan is causing a mixed reaction from environmentalists.
Roberts said, “Some environmentalists will be very pleased and some will think that it didn’t go far enough.”
Some in congress already urging President-elect Bush to try to scrap what they call “misguided” regulations.
Roberts said, “We’ve got a crisis here, an energy crisis. So we have to make these lands available for exploration.”
Any action to overturn this won’t happen until Bill Clinton is long gone from the White House.
Rick Roberts said that he hopes when they start discussing individual plans. There will be more local involvement because recreational issues will be on the local level rather than the national level. He also said that there is a lot of discussion within the community about off road vehicle use. Owners are scared this may prohibit any access for them.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
384 Posts
THANK YOU Mr. Clinton for perserving some wild grounds for generations to come! Now that being said Mr. Clinton please take a moment to step in fron of a speeding freight train! Thank you Mr. Clinton.


Next time take Janet Reno Sarah Brady and PETA with you.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Song Dog-

I agree that Clinton did some crummy things. But he has done some good things as well.

One thing that I have noticed is that when Clinton ran for office , all we got from the NRA was "their taking our guns! Their taking our guns!".

After 8 years of Clinton, I still have all my guns. Funny , eh?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,439 Posts
Matt,
Yes, we all still have our guns. But, isn't the scene quite a bit different now than before as far as acquiring and possessing is concerned with our guns?

I tried to buy a shotgun a year ago on a Friday night. I was required to wait overnight to pick up my gun because the "instant" background check did not come back "instantly". My last traffic violation was in 1995. It was a very annoying and frustrating situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
If Clinton had his way you wouldn't have any guns. Good thing we had others in office to keep him under control, at least professionally.

------------------
Cliff Cushard
Cushard's Kennel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
384 Posts
Thats right Labguy! The only reason the Clinton Administration hasn't taken your guns is because of a republican legislature.

The reason Michigan has adopted a realistic approach to CCW is a republican legislature.

Mr. Clinton has done a some worthwhile things in 8 yrs. Like cheated on his wife, got himself impeached, sent Susan Mcdougal to prison then there is Ruby Ridge, White Water, That religous sect in Texas blah blah blah.Yada yada yada. Here comes the train make good use of your time slick willy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Song Dog : yes you still have your guns ahe. And you better thank the NRA and other groups that you still do. Because as in California and other places the assualt goes on. Remember just a few months ago an Olympic shooter was told move to Texas. Because she has a completion pistol that has been banned . And that statement was by a senator from that state. "Let her go to Texas". How rude to tell an 18 year old woman; an Olympic completion shooter. If you don't like it and don't give up your gun your a crimminal. Move to texas. And that crap is happening everywhere .

mike(AKA)bigdad5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Matt, I have to disagree that this is a good idea. I’m all for preserving the environment but to lock up this amount of land is a waste of a natural resource. I have hunted in the Bitterroot National Forest twice (unguided from out of state) and without the logging roads provided by the logging companies it would be almost impossible for the average Joe to gain access in a lot of parts. From the main highway to our camp site it was 17 miles so unless you could afford to hire a person with horses you would have to walk. I also don’t like the idea of not using the lumber that could be harvested from the trees when they become mature. What a waste! Montana and a few of the other western states rely heavily on the lumber industry so this could really hurt the economy in these states as well. But I’m sure Slick Willy knows what is best for these folks. President Bush is already looking into overturning this in the future.

Janet Reno and Al Gore have both gone on the record saying that they don’t believe individual citizens should own guns. How much clearer do you want it spelled out for you. If you are really concerned about your grandchildren enjoying what you enjoy you would join the NRA.

Tim


[This message has been edited by Tim Baker (edited 01-17-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
384 Posts
I'm quite sure that after 29yrs on this planet that the federal government knows what is best for me!

Oh please Mr. Clinto SAVE ME FROM MYSELF!

While your at take my hard earned money and give it to someone who hasn't worked a day in his life.


You know,"Always complaining he doesn't have a job, always too busy to get one"

Thats what I have to say about that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,531 Posts
I feel I must respond to this immediately....although I am still in the process of trying to get reprints and/or online access to the whole article.

Everyone ... PLEASE ... Read and learn what can actually happen! This is the first part of a series of 'rulemakings' that stand to hurt us all more than you can now imagine from reading the original (truth? from the media??) printing/news flash.

PLEASE ---- get hold of the Nov./Dec. issue of AMERICAN HUNTER Magazine and read the article beginning on page 59. It will open your eyes!! As previously stated, I am attempting to get this inhand from the publishers to pass out/post online for everyone. I await an answer from the editor as we now sit here! I will keep you posted. In the meantime, keep your mind and your eyes open to the 'real slick willy'!!

This first part is veiled as something of value when the 'rulemakings' to come are intentionally being kept in the shadows except by those organizations digging deep for the facts. There's a reason 'Willy s' not letting the whole picture out at once!

And Matt12, you could forget about your hunting and fishing (unless you're willing to pack in your boat on foot) -- with roads locked up, you'll have a tough time getting in! ~ m ~

[This message has been edited by Liv4Huntin' (edited 01-17-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Liv4Huntin' (edited 01-17-2001).]
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank You Mr. Clinton for leaving office in 3 days. Hope you make lots of money lobbying for your Chinese company, which happens to be a front company of the Chinese military. Traitor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
53 Posts
I have heard some complaints from hunters who do no agree with the protection of these lands. There reasoning is that eventually protected forest become dying, overgrown, decaying tangles of downfalls that humans as well as animals cannot access. I have not hunted such lands so I cannot speak from experience. Any validity to their concerns?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
17,786 Posts
Yeah, take away our guns and turn your back on the weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East. *bobggle* <----<<<
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
THANK YOU MR CLINTON???? do you understand what you post? no vehicles on any of that protected land.ie( no fire trucks ).and hunting is illegal on some of it to.they also take out any bridges in that land (hmm crossing a ragin river) no camp fires . and since few people can get back there to hunt fish and trap the game population will get over populated and diseased. thank you mr clinton for not allow anybody to use any of this land . carl

[This message has been edited by trappercarl (edited 01-17-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
I can't wait until that jerk gets out of the Whitehouse, even in the last days he has to pull this stunt. I remember when Gov. Blanchard did the same thing here in Michigan when I was baiting bears in the U.P.
I use to drive a good ways on a two track to get to one of my bait sites and then I had to carry the bait by hand the rest of the way in, and then he passed that wilderness lands act and the next year there was a gate and a sign that met me stating that "no vehicle traffic was allowed". I then gave up on even hunting that area since it was to far in to carry my bait everyday.
This is what will happen in the areas that he protected, and good luck getting around in those areas now after what Clinton did. I hope Bush can get this stupid act overturned or nobody will be able to even get in there and enjoy it!..SnS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
Originally posted by JMesler:
I have heard some complaints from hunters who do no agree with the protection of these lands. There reasoning is that eventually protected forest become dying, overgrown, decaying tangles of downfalls that humans as well as animals cannot access. I have not hunted such lands so I cannot speak from experience. Any validity to their concerns?
I've hunted in these types of areas. Its not just that it becomes a tangled mass, but it can also be along the lines of a cathedral like atmospere. The old growth tree create a conopy that cuts off the sunlight to the undergrowth and all you get is a carpet of pine needles. Not much for smaller wildlife to live off. Spagnum Moss can also take hold and kill off everything eventually. Trees and all. I've seen this quite a bit in the UP.
The other big concern is that a huge roadless area is not accesable to fire fighters. This was already seen this past summer out west.



------------------
Mike
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry guys, I disagree.

and guess who else does?

Trout Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk FOundation, the Montana Associationf of Outfitters, Rocky Mountain Mule Deer association.

Yes, all these groups back this plan.

You guys may not know it, but Michigan used to have elk, caribou, moose, cougar, and wolverine.

THe reason we dont have those great hunting opportunities anymore is because people didnt protect roadless areas.

The people of Montana have a wider range of species to hunt from because people had the foresight to protect roadless areas.


And who said hunting wouldnt be allowed in these areas? Thats an outright lie.


As for "being locked out". how can you be locked out of an area that never had any roads in it to begin with? This logic makes little sense.

Good hunting habitat requires balance. Old growth forest that arent logged provide great habitat for elk, cougar, and other great species.

Do we really want the rest of the country to only support grouse and deer hunting? I think not.

HEre is the official website for this plan:
http://roadless.fs.fed.us/

Guys, this is what REAL conservationists do. They conserve our great natural resources.

Clinton has just protected more land than the great Republican Teddy Roosevelt, who was also a true conservationist.

Conservation is not sending money to your gun club and teaching a kid how to hunt. Conservation is protecting the best, most pristine hunting habitats.

 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
\\I've hunted in these types of areas. Its not just that it becomes a tangled mass, but it can also be along the lines of a cathedral like atmospere. The old growth tree create a conopy that cuts off the sunlight to the undergrowth and all you get is a carpet of pine needles. Not much for smaller wildlife to live off. Spagnum Moss can also take hold and kill off everything eventually. Trees and all. I've seen this quite a bit in the UP.
The other big concern is that a huge roadless area is not accesable to fire fighters. This was already seen this past summer out west\\


Old growth areas actually support more life than cut areas. Also, old growth trees, especially white pine and red pine, become fire resistant after time, so only the understory burns.

This is especially true of the U.p., where only .o5 percent of the old growth is left. There are only a few places in the U.P. where you can find large stands of old growth (200 year old trees). They are the Mcormick wilderness, Sylvania, and porcupine mountains.

Thats right. The tangled mess you speak of is LOGGED over land, and almost al lof the U.P. has been logged. Old growth forests have a more opn canopy, not a tangled one.

It sure would be nice to hunt elk, caribou, mosse and cougar in the U.P., wouldn't it? Thats how it was before everything got roaded and logged.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
This first part is veiled as something of value when the 'rulemakings' to come are intentionally being kept in the shadows except by those organizations digging deep for the facts. There's a reason 'Willy s' not letting the whole picture out at once!

And Matt12, you could forget about your hunting and fishing (unless you're willing to pack in your boat on foot) -- with roads locked up, you'll have a tough time getting in! ~ m ~


Forget about your huting and fishing? Are you kidding me? This deal keeps our streams sunning cold and clear, and helps the habitat of big game in many ways.
PLease remember that these are NAtional Forest lands, which only make up one fifth of the tiber in the lower 48.


Hunting and fishing will continue as they always have, but will be better. Current offroadd trails in the area will remain.

This is GREAT news for anyone who likes to hunt wild country. What a great thing this is.

I dont know about you, but I Want my kid to have the choice to hunt in a wild area, not some place with hundreds of logging roads drivern by the local kids tossing beer cans out the window.

I want my kid to be able to hunt elk and cougar, not just grouse.


 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top