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I am looking for an economical over and under. I recently visited a local sporting goods store and saw them on sale. Looked at the 20 gage it was light. The guy said it was being backed by benelli. Is there any truth to this? Also was wondering if this would be a good gun for pheasant? I will probably only go a couple times a year and the pocket book is thin.

Thanks,
Dennis
 

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I am looking for an economical over and under. I recently visited a local sporting goods store and saw them on sale. Looked at the 20 gage it was light. The guy said it was being backed by benelli. Is there any truth to this? Also was wondering if this would be a good gun for pheasant? I will probably only go a couple times a year and the pocket book is thin.

Thanks,
Dennis
If you're going to pound the hell out of the gun with 10,000 rounds a year at the range, don't buy one of these. However, if you're looking for a "working gun" to go hunt with, buy the Condor Supreme, not the the cheaper standard version. I've got one in twelve gauge and it hasn't let me down yet. Some people have had the opposite experience, but I've noted that those reports tend to be closer to when the guns were first released about 3-4 years ago.

Also, they are NOT Turkish guns. They are made in Brazil. Benelli owns Stoeger but the guns are NOT made by Benelli. Benelli is just the parent company that owns Stoeger.

Don't go with anything less than a 12 gauge for pheasant hunting. JMO
 

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Personally I would never hunt with one. I've seen problems with 2 different ones from friends.

Why do you want one? Plenty of nice servicable light weight pumps out there.

If you really want an O/U save a few more bucks and buy gun that will last you a lifetime. A Stoeger may only last a season.
 

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Personally I would never hunt with one. I've seen problems with 2 different ones from friends.

Why do you want one? Plenty of nice servicable light weight pumps out there.

If you really want an O/U save a few more bucks and buy gun that will last you a lifetime. A Stoeger may only last a season.
That hasn't been my experience at all nor that of some other folks I know. HOWEVER, for true reliability I'd count on my Remington 870 over my Stoeger. I've never known anyone to have anything bad to say about the 870, not so with the Condor.
 

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That hasn't been my experience at all nor that of some other folks I know. HOWEVER, for true reliability I'd count on my Remington 870 over my Stoeger. I've never known anyone to have anything bad to say about the 870, not so with the Condor.
I've seen 2 different people have the gun double. I also saw my cousins go off when he flicked the safety real hard and threw the gun to his shoulder. I don't think they are safe at all. 870 wingmaster would be my gun if I were in that budget area.
 

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I've seen 2 different people have the gun double. I also saw my cousins go off when he flicked the safety real hard and threw the gun to his shoulder. I don't think they are safe at all. 870 wingmaster would be my gun if I were in that budget area.
Just out of curiousity, was this with the standard Condor or the "Supreme" variant that they sell? It may not make much difference, but I'm still curious.

The 870 Express isn't a bad option either. Though the finish on the wood is a disappointment.
 

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Just out of curiousity, was this with the standard Condor or the "Supreme" variant that they sell? It may not make much difference, but I'm still curious.

The 870 Express isn't a bad option either. Though the finish on the wood is a disappointment.
I doubt it was the supreme but, don't know for sure.
 

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Dennis,

I'd have to question your reasoning for an O/U as well. If you're on a budget and want a gun that will only be used a couple of times a year, I wouldn't look for a double. Doubles are great for many reasons, affordability is just not one of them (especially a good one).

I did a lot of looking for an affordable shotgun recently. I basically narrowed it down to two choices. The Remington 870 pump (as mentioned above) and a Charles Daly Field Hunter (autoloader). I chose the Charles Daly. Many people may scoff at an autoloader, but I have been extremely happy with mine. Affordable ($450), light, low felt recoil, and very versatile (interchangeable barrels and chokes).
 

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If I were you, I would look at the old Verona line. . .you can find them used for $500-$650. Made in Italy and now selling for much more $$ being imported by Legacy Sports. . .around $1200-$2000 NIB.

The 500 series are their hunting shotguns. . .all the same inside, just differnet cosmetics. 500/501/502/503/504/505/506 Sometimes checking with the local Gander and having them run a computer check works great, might find one in another state at a low price.

I have 4 Veronas 12/20/28/28. . .great guns.

Here is the website of the parent company in Italy

www.fair.it

If you have any questions, let me know.
 

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2 thumbs up here for the Stoeger. As a member of Team Stoeger, I absolutly love the gun. Is it a pretty and prestigious as a Parker, No; is it light to carry, No; is it cost effective, yes; does it go bang, Yes!! At the end of the day, all guns are the sam, do they go click and boom? If that happens, then the rest is up to you!! I would not trade my Stoeger for a Citori any day. I love the gun. If I am walking thru the Grouse woods and need to move some brush, it doubles as a machete. My gun as nicks and dings in the stock and the barrel. IMO, it adds character and it is what it is, a meat gun!! My buddy continues to have firing pin issues with his Citori. Never had that problem with my Stoeger. I own both a 12 & 20 gauge. I know that Stoeger does make a 12/20 combo. It is worth looking into. I like guns, so I bought 1 of each!! The only time I had any issue was with the weight of the 12 gauge. When pounding large tracts of land in NoDak, it did get heavy. However, throwing lead down range at a wiley Rooster cures that real quick. Just remember one thing, all guns are the same. They go click and boom. The work is up to you to make the boom hit the target! Good Luck in your search, and Good Hunting!
 

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Just remember one thing, all guns are the same. They go click and boom.
What are you talking about? Except ones that double off, have unreliable safetys and misfire??? I've heard about and experienced way too many problems with cheap double guns. Stoegers and Mosserg Silver Reserves at the top of the list. I'm sure some of them function perfectly for some people. Its really just not worth it, IMO.
 

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I bought a Stoeger Uplander side-by-side in .410 for rabbit hunting and absolutely love it. Never had a problem. For a $350.00 field grade gun it's just right. For me it is well balanced and throws up to the shoulder right on the mark.
I checked out the CeeZee(sp?) models and thought they were a better made piece, but the price tag was way too much for a gun to beat around in the brush and snow with. Besides, they didn't fit me as well.
I originally looked at a Stevens 311 in .410 that I found for sale. It was in near mint condition and fit well. But the fella wanted $1,400.00 for it.:eek:
Seems the old 311's are collectors. Fellas want a set of them in 12, 16, 20, & .410. With the .410's being the hardest to come by. Hence the high price the .410's fetch.
 

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You will do better on the used market hands down every time if you're careful what you buy. For example, if you buy a used Remington 870 Wingmaster (a huge upgrade over the Express) you will pay $250-$300. I picked one up last year that is in perfect shape for $250.

Just like vehicles, so much value is lost when you walk out of the showroom, and for what? Besides that, you will put those same "character" marks in a gun your first time out, so what's the difference?

If I were you I would buy a nice used pump and hold out until you can afford a really nice over/under if that's what you want. Even if it take you years of saving, you will be happier than if you buy an inexpensive problem-child.

My .02 cents

Ray
 

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I am looking for an economical over and under. I recently visited a local sporting goods store and saw them on sale. Looked at the 20 gage it was light. The guy said it was being backed by benelli. Is there any truth to this? Also was wondering if this would be a good gun for pheasant? I will probably only go a couple times a year and the pocket book is thin.

Thanks,
Dennis
Ditto everyone else's negative comments about Stoeger shotguns. I spend a lot of time on the skeet fields at a local gun club and I've lost track the number of times I've witnessed problems with Stoegers and other similar double guns - gun doubling, single trigger not resetting after first shot, gun can't be broken open, problems with the safety working/not working.

Look I've got nothing against inexpensive shotguns. The H&R single shot is an inexpensive shotgun but it is a very good shotgun nonetheless. Why? Because it wasn't designed to "do" a lot of things at a cheap price. The problem with cheap doubles is that they try and offer a lot of bells and whistles at a cheap price but something has to give and it's usually quality control. This is why some people buy these shotguns and rarely have problems and why with a lot of others they have the opposite experience. Choke tubes, single triggers, well regulated barrels etc. all add to the cost of a shotgun. To offer these things at a low price - again something has to give and it's usually quality control.

Any shotgun from the cheapest to the most expensive can have problems because a shotgun is a "machine" with moving parts. But how many complaints do you read about on threads like this one from people who shoot Rugers, Brownings, SKBs? Very, very few.

If you're set on an O/U I think you're much further ahead looking for a used Ruger, Browning, SKB etc. If you buy a gun like a Stoeger new it will loose probably close to 2/3 it's value the moment you walk out the store with it. A used but well made double will hold it's value for a long, long time.

I also think this idea of a "beater" gun is grossly over emphasized. I hunt grouse and woodcock exclusively from southern Michigan to the U.P. and I hunt a lot and I hunt hard rain or shine and my both my Rugers still look pretty good:

This is my go to 20 ga. that I re-finished* five years ago:



This is my go to 28 ga. that I re-finished four years ago:




What really dings up a lot of shotguns is a lot of target shooting - constantly in and out of gun racks - many of questionable quality, pieces of broken birds flying askew, bunched up squads of guys swinging broken open guns around willy-nilly etc.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your final choice.

Hoppe's no.10

* I re-finished it because I like re-finishing gun stocks and I thought I could do a better job of highlighting the grain and color than the factory finish did.
 

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I have had my Stoeger Uplander for 25 years and have never had a problem with it,,,,,,,,,ever.
Where was that gun made? I think at one time, they were made in Italy by Bernadelli or somebody else?
 

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I shot an uplander sxs in 12 g for 6 years - for everything from grouse to geese - and I NEVER had a problem. In fact, I found it one of the best shouldering guns I ever owned. I still have it, but upgraded to a Merkel 12 (just a poor victim of seduction, I am afraid). Its not a light gun, but its a killer for sure.

I got my dad into a condor O/U and I will say that it was not 100% reliable. No safety issues - but it sometimes failed to fire. I did some checking on this - and I found that the wide opinion on this is that the double trigger guns are just more reliable. One trigger - one pin - one bang. I NEVER had a failure EVER for as long as I have had and used the uplander. Plus, at the price point - you don't have to be too careful with it.

Based on my experience with the Uplander, I bought a Stoeger 2000 semi auto - which I had to have the firing pin adjusted on - but which has since been very reliable - and has taken the place of my 870 in the duck blind (blasphemy!).

I strongly recommend the Uplander with double triggers - for reliability AND for safety. I have a 20g sxs from CZ - which is a much nicer gun in terms of fit and finish - beautiful actually - and surprisingly affordable (around $700 new). I love the gun, but it does not have an automatic saftey which resets when you break the action open. I know this is more a preferential option - but the Stoeger does have this and it makes for the safest kind of shotgun there is - because, I am inclined (and I think most others are) to break the gun after every time I shoot - whether I empty both barrels or not - just so I can have a two shells ready to go at my next opportunity. This automatically puts the gun on safe - no brainer. Also, with the top tang safety, you don't have to turn the gun to check the safety as you do with most autos and pumps (except the mossberg pumps).

Again, I highly recommend the Uplander. It gives you a little taste of the classic double, its a good pointer, versatile in 12 g, and with the double trigger configuration and automatic saftey - it is BOTH reliable and safe.

I just picked up a used one for my nephew (14 and just getting into bird hunting) to use as his all around "game gun". Its probably a little sinful to turn him on to doubles at that age - but I think the almighty will forgive me that transgression.

That is my very strong opinion on this matter.
 

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If you shy away from something because somebody knows someone who wasn't happy – you'll end up with nothing.

I have a Stoeger OU12 and it works just fine for uplands, not a go-to-gun if you're looking for light. Stretches arms like my 870 but it improved my field shooting dramatically –*uplands seldom offer more than 2 shots and you can carry the bead like an autoloader –*and I've got a tighter choke on my 2nd. Neither is a top-shelf option but they both kill birds, My 870 has jammed on me way more than my single bout with the Condor –*shooting 3" steel in freezing rain the breech lock once froze shut. It pissed me off but it wasn't anything unsafe, the 870 is a better waterfowler.
 
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