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So you think there will be compromise in a state run completely by one party? LOL
Yes, that's what usually happens when there is one party rule. The majority party may want a particular Bill passed and they do not have enough votes for passage, that's where the horse trading begins. The party whips will make sure they get the votes and may have to trade something to get them.

Look at that Bill 251 ( I think that's the number) the one that took all the regulatory power away from the DNR and gave it to the Legislature. That was signed by the Big Gretch and nobody knew about it. Same thing may happen with the netting Bill. One day it may just show up for the Governors approval.
 

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If you have no dog in this fight then why do you comment on the netters side on every thread that comes up on this board that is even remotely connected to state licensed commercial fishing? You want netters to be able to keep sport fish like walleye, trout..... and the sport fishing community is against that. This is mainly a sport fishing and hunting forum. You stand out like a sore thumb here. Not hard to spot a representative of the commercial fishing industry at all.
OK, thanks for your reply. I will take your comments under consideration. I would recommend that you take a reading comprehension course at your local community college or even an alternative school. You have not been able to absorb any of the positions I have taken in the last 2 or so years. You have been so "out to lunch" on the statements you made regarding the 1836 Treaty, the Consent Decree, Tribal rights, commercial netting laws, Federal Court decisions. Your comments are
reminiscent of those ankle biting chihuahua's, you let them bark and then you kick them aside.
Get some facts before you blabber.

We are done,you have the mental absorption of a rock.
 

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Apparently you haven't read his last 50 posts? The post you referred to is just another batch of mis information BS he loves to spew.
Let me modify my last statement. BS is not appropriate. BS is where someone know's the truth but twists and turns it to a statement they think is correct or is to their liking.
Clueless is a better term to use because that refers to people that have no idea what they are talking about. Just read those previous posts and you will see everyone has to correct the statements.
 

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Let me modify my last statement. BS is not appropriate. BS is where someone know's the truth but twists and turns it to a statement they think is correct or is to their liking.
Clueless is a better term to use because that refers to people that have no idea what they are talking about. Just read those previous posts and you will see everyone has to correct the statements.
Just thinking, these, sometimes personal attacks on individuals (me included) are getting us nowhere. From now on we should comment on the issue, not the personal responses or feelings of others. We all have opinions, some based on facts others on feelings and mis information.
From now on let's discuss the issue not what individuals think.
 

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And this is why it is hard to get any help from fishermen. We have a gathering of fishing clubs and conservation organizations that have been fighting this for years.

The DNR’s goal is to make sure the process is the punishment. They have dragged this out for 3 years now in hopes of bankrupting any opposition.

The Coalition to Protect Michigan Resources (CPMR) is the umbrella and was an Amicus Curiae in Federal Court.

But, once the CPMR lawyers figured out the State was in bed with the Feds and the Tribes and were giving away the great lakes, it resulted in a yelling match, and the CPMR lawyers have been getting nothing from the state except stink eye.

The fight goes on. Objection Motions have been filed and unbelievably the judge said all objections will be adjudicated before the new nets become official.

The current decree was OK. If we could have just held on to a the current 50/50 split, everyone would have gone on their way…but no.

Same as energy policies, boarder protection etc. They could have just left them alone and we would have been fine…but no.


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Just one question. Did the CPMR have Amicus Curiae privileges in the Federal Court, or just the Consent negotiations?
 

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Maybe gordon casey needs to read up on history. Iv read the books. And i know exactly who put the salmon in thr great lakes. It surely wasnt any commercial fisherman or indian tribe. Imo they have zero rights to the sportfish in the great lakes. Which means they dont get to target them by means other then sport fishing.
Funny, I didn't know non native commercial netters could harvest salmon. Glad you read "the books", I was fishing salmon in the 1960's
 

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This is the only rights the Indian's have in the treaty area:

The Indians stipulate for the right of hunting on the lands ceded, with the other usual privileges of occupancy, until the land is required for settlement.

Any other liberal interpretations of that sentence have not been judged by the Supreme Court. It's high time that this gets settled once and for all.
It has already been settled. The courts have already ruled on this. Ever hear of the Consent Decree, it's the document that better defines the fishing rights included in the Treaty.
 

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The way it was explained to me is that Michigan never did challenge the liberal interpretation of the treaty in court and instead went with a "shared" agreement approach. They said it would be too risky to take it to court because the Indians may win and the resources could be damaged as a result. Well, now we are seeing that the Indians don't give a rip about the resources and want to saturate the Great Lakes will gill nets. What's next, trawling.... At this point we really have nothing much left to loose by taking the mater to court. There are always reasons to appeal judges rulings since in this case, if it were to go against the state, it would be purely a political decision. This statement in the treaty is pretty clear to me and anybody with a grade school reading ability:

The Indians stipulate for the right of hunting on the lands ceded, with the other usual privileges of occupancy, until the land is required for settlement.

Anybody that sees fishing rights (especially on the Great Lakes) in that statement or thinks that Michigan has not been settled is either an idiot, incompetent, or politically motivated to ignore or intentionally misinterpret that statement. Now more than ever the Supreme Court may be occupied by a majority of justices that may actually just rule on this issue based on the actual letter of law (working of the treaty) and not some political ideology that many judges and justices seem use these days. If our current state government will not take measures to save our valuable natural resources, then they don't give a rip about them either.
The way it was explained to me...... True, the Supreme Court has not ruled on this Treaty and probably never will. This Treaty is really a States issue and the writing of the Treaty does not have National implications because it is unique to the situation. The Federal Circuit Court has ruled and any challenges have been denied. The Circuit has ruled that "privileges of occupancy" means hunting, fishing , gathering and any other privileges. To better clarify fishing rights,the Consent Agreement was approved in 2000. In the Treaty, the Natives "sold" the land to the Fed's as Michigan was not even a State yet, and received "perpetual" use of it.

The issue the States and Fed's do not want to address is the word "settlement". What does it mean and what are the ramifications? Does it mean all private land is off limits? Does it mean the Natives can use all unoccupied land? The Treaty defines land for "habitation", at the time of the writing of the Treaty, the white man authors had no understanding of nomadic life and thought the Indians needed land to live on.
In earlier posts I talked about reading a book published by Michigan State that discusses the fur trade, the trade routes and lists the various Treaties included in the Great Lakes region. The 1836 Treaty was identified and had defined areas for habitation. Some of these area's are now towns and very early plat maps have those areas of habitation defined. Maybe the Natives own those towns?

I am not a lawyer nor a legal scholar, just a concerned citizen who has done some research and had conversations with Natives and some legal people who investigated issues in NW Michigan.

Maybe some legal scholars, reporting on this site, can clarify any errors or misinformation I reported.
 

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If this is all we gave up its not terrible. Might as well stop stocking anything in the Boardman though good thing they wasted all that time and money removing the dam hahaha. This is a map of the zones fwiw.

View attachment 870661
They are still going to spend around 23 million for a fish pass.....what a waste of money.
 

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How about this? “State of Michigan and ‘sportsman’ move to strip native Americans of 200 year old treaty fishing rights.”

Our case is a loser. In Court and in public opinion.
You are right! Today, in the world of minority sympathy and woke attitude, the Courts would NEVER take TREATY rights from a minority population. Especially with the past history of Treaty abuses.
 

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The law is not supposed to be a popularity contest tried in the court of public opinion. The current SCOTUS has not had any problem ruling on cases that pissed off millions of people. I do think it will take the near complete ruination of our sport fisheries and a change in political leadership before any action will ever be taken.
Politics has nothing to do with this, you are dealing with a Treaty, not State or Federal law.
 

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That report is a good breakdown of what we already know, thanks for posting it.
I fear this report is the tip of the iceberg when compared to the total Consent agreement.
Nothing yet reported regarding new Consent activities in Superior and Northern Huron. Will gill nets be allowed? What mesh size? How many feet? Allowable gill net zones.
What is the percentage distribution of the total allowable catch? 2000 Consent 50/50 distribution, rumor is 60/40 Tribes.
Will there be quota's assigned by fish specie? What is the plan regarding the planting of supplemental fish. There will be a slaughter of perch on Northern Huron if small mesh gill nets are allowed.

Finally, will there be changes in enforcement? If not, it will be business as usual. Tribal Courts will do nothing, if they do, it will be pittance fines.
The only difference is now using gill nets the Tribes will be able to sell everything in the net. High value fish like walleye and perch will be targeted.
 

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Politics is involved. Like everything else…you crack me up…..
Please explain what GOVERNMENTAL politics could have done to change the outcome? In this case we are dealing with a Treaty and a Sovereign Nation. Was the Legislature directly involved in the negotiations? Sure, the Circuit Court Judges are appointed by the President, but if they are honest, they should be guided by precedent.
It appears the Court sided with the Tribes demand identified in the report in post #419.
 

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Yep. The case is a loser. No State AG would ever want to pick it up. The sportsman do not have funds nor sufficient organization to raise funds to hire competent counsel to file a civil suit to intercede. So we whine on the internet as a next best thing.
Big water fishers are a small segment of the State population and get no respect. Michigan population want their fish to eat but don't understand the fish they buy from the grocery store have nothing to do with Great Lakes fish. Mostly farm raised or from Europe or the far East. Probably have to go to a fish market to get G. Lakes fish like whitefish, chubs, Lake trout.
 
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