That’s the dumbest idea of all time. If they lose the decision all private land in the consent area would become huntable for tribal members including in city limits. That is the exact reason why you will never see it go to federal court. Can you imagine a deer drive taking place inside the city limits of TC or farmland anywhere during October 1st with firearms.
Some Consent Decree news...
Michigan United Conservation Clubs
The Coalition to Protect Michigan Resources filed a motion to intervene Wednesday in the ongoing Great Lakes Consent Decree negotiations. The motion states “the breakdown in the relationship with...
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Please post a link to an example of tribal members actually decimating the Great Lakes resource. If you would like I can post an example of non tribal members decimating the Great Lakes via ballast water dumping importing mussels and other invasive. Where is the out rage from the collapse of the food chain caused by non tribal members? The sky did not fall because of the actions of tribal members. Put blame where it belongs and have those who caused the issue and fund the total reversal of the all the issues they caused not tax payers.But they haven't been here longer than you or I have. They were born right here in the 20th century like the rest of us.
I have zero problem with the natives commercial fishing. I don't even have a problem with a consent decree awarding them certain privileges. I do, however, have a problem when a small group of people has the ability to decimate a shared and finite resource at the expense of a large group of people simply because they claim special rights due to heritage.
The Sault tribe's insistence on self regulation puts the fishery at grave risk in my opinion. I think everybody today recognizes the Great Lakes are finite resource. Shared management based on science is the only path forward if we are to preserve the resource for the benefit of all, which includes recreational and native commercial fishers. It's anybody's guess what happens if some random judge rules in the Sault's favor.
I think it only reveals their sense of entitlement and depth of greed that they want to do whatever they want without accountability in a world where it's becoming increasingly important to manage shared resources together.
Again do you have a link to share regarding your last post where you claim the tribes have the ability to decimate a shared resource? Did it actually happen or Is it just your fact based opinion? I would like to read it if it is indeed a fact instead of a supposition based solely on an opinion.I’m not blaming native commercial fishers for the collapse of the food chain. I expressed my dismay over the DNR’s previous poor policy decisions on a multitude of occasions on this forum in the past and am pleased with policy changes over the last several years that have led to an improvement in the health of our fishery.
You’re confusing the issue. We’re talking about the consent decree and regulation of commercial fishing. Unregulated commercial fishing historically has been known to collapse fisheries in the US. Where are our whitefish? Commercial whitefish fishing in Lake Michigan HAS decimated our whitefish population.
Native commercial fishers do not have EXCLUSIVE rights to the fishery. They certainly have rights to it as well as special privileges. But no where in the law are they granted exclusive rights. They’re utilizing a shared resource in other words and should be accountable to shared management decisions. The desire for a commercial entity (ie the Sault) to be unregulated can only mean that they don’t share the same interest in maintaining a balance to fishery for the benefit of all its participants.
Recreational fishing is regulated in order to maintain a healthy fishery. Unregulated recreational fishing can and has (egs. Huron) collapsed fisheries. You’re blind if you think unregulated commercial fishing—or even poorly regulated commercial fishing—doesn’t have the potential to do so.
As always the law firms for both sides will make out like bandits. There’s no doubt they are the ones helping fan the flames for personal gains.
You do realize that 99.99% + of the eggs do not survive. That is not on tribal members but those who introduced invasives along with those that let it happen. Put the blame where it belongs, it’s not the tribes causing the population crash. Those responsible shown pay to reverse the problem and restore the ecosystem.Have not the tribes been allowed the majority of the whitefish haul as a backbone to thier commercial take?
As whitefish catch dropped steadily (even halved) and adults became less frequent while bycatch got tossed (and does bycatch increase with increased netting effort to compensate for reduced catches?)... What was the native response to decline?
While reefs are studied, reefs created , the lakes foodchain and invasives put under a magnifying glass and sample nettings confirm there is a problem among cisco and whitefish recruitments , who stopped netting them till enough adults stated turning up in samples again for the sake of recruitment enough to go back to tonnages of the fish that have anchored native use here for thousands of years?
What reduced catch? The response of those depending on the fishery to provide tonnage, or lower recruitment of the species?
When an entity (pink blue or green) keeps sieving away while a resource is being strained ( strained by dual definition) in an effort to maintain tonnage as tonnage caught obviously shows a decline .... Who should be maintaining the resource alleged to be shared by all? And it's deductions.
The last entity that should overexploit a whitefish resource it's history is so closely tied with should be that same entity.
As it should fight to see others do not overexploit it.
Meanwhile , how is the catch tonnage been trending? How's the adult ratio in samples? How's the spawning habitat and resultant recruitment rate doing compared to catch rates?
Oh look , eggs! The sky will be darkened again by pigeons for sure. Have at em. Just another infinite resource. Never mind any decline or causation of decline. It couldn't be your contribution to deduction.
dec·i·mate
[ˈdesəˌmāt]
VERB
- kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of:
"the project would decimate the fragile wetland wilderness" · "the American chestnut, a species decimated by blight"
SIMILAR:
get rid of
eliminate
do away with
remove
suppress
- drastically reduce the strength or effectiveness of (something):
"plant viruses that can decimate yields"- HISTORICAL
kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group:
Will the DNR require mandatory reporting of all fish taken in Michigan waters for commercial and sport fisherman like the do for deer? Mandatory 72 hour reporting requirement or $500 fine along with 30 days in jail possible. It would seem it would only take a small softt ware change to accomplish it.
Leading by example goes much farther than being told to do as I say not as I do. I guess it’s much easier to snivel and whine on line than lead by example.Makes sense to me, if the big guys have to do it so should the little guys. They can keep track of all those over limit fish stored in the freezers. I'm joking of course.
Just making the claim that transponders are just another step toward a police state.
Yes I complied about driving to find a signal but I complied with the requirement. Only had to drive 62 miles one way to take care of it. Simple system. There is no reason why sport fishermen can’t do the same. It supposedly will provide accurate results according to some. Would it be better if private land owners who owns a quarter section or more demand that small land owners along with public land owners only report? Same analogy. Leading by example is a better way to go to get all on board but you know that to be true.You know, for a guy who bitched mightily about how hard it would be and how much effort it would require for you to find a signal to comply with mandatory reporting, you managed to routinely visit this site during the firearm deer season. How ODD!
The charter industry has catch reports which are required MANDATORY submissions, as do State Commercial fishers . Maybe you could offer to bankroll the additional server space and icloud storage required for the sport fishing reporting?
There is an easy solution that would stop all the sniveling and whining by sport fisherman. Either stop fishing in ceded territory or lead by example and demand the DNR implement mandatory reporting just like some here are railing for. Asking somebody to do something they are unwilling to do themselves is absolutely idiotic. It will never accomplish a thing in negotiations. I can tell you were never directly involved with labor negotiations because that tactic never has worked and never will.Was it uphill both ways? No need to anwer, I lived near Pickford for four years....
So,what is the valuable end result from acquiring all this data from the sport fishery? How would you suggest it be used to better manage the fishery? As a former business professional, how does the dollar expenditure to gather and store it justify the benefit and use as a management tool? And, last, the CD is a contractual negotiation settlement, overseen by the courts between two parties. The data gathering on catch, catch reporting, etc. are used to verify that both parties are in compliance with that contract. How does this relate to the sport fishery, which is none of these things, with voluntary participation by fishers who agree via purchase of a fishing license to abide by the State and Federal regulations to have access. Do CO not police the fishery? Are all sport fishers violators? Is there a profit motive for sport fishers?
Unlike deer, the sport fishery is managed via some pretty accurate estimations of forage and sport fish numbers, survival, consumption efficiency stratified by fish species, etc. How many deer actually reside in Michigan? What is the age structure of the various population segments in Regions 1,2 and 3
My beef with the mandatory deer reporting is not doing it within 72 hour time frame. Data doesn’t change in a week, month or even until the end of the season. That’s the way it is. Having a 72 hour reporting window, $500 fine and possible time in jail for deer could easily be implemented for fisherman’s take too with no harm to the resource. We all know creel survey data takers are lied to on a regular basis so that data is inaccurate.
Do you have a link to support your assumption or just making stuff up?Ummm, if we went back to 1836 we would continue stomping your asses out with no consideration for the future of your people.😊
More gaslighting, Google it. Like many posts on this subject.The link is called History. You can’t Google it
The courts have and will continue to side with the existing treaties. The consent decree is just another example. If you don’t want to share, fish in non treaty waters, it’s that simple.I’ll just continue to concur with @Cork Dust about your ignorance about this issue & not take part in piling on!
I can explain it to you but can not understand it for you. The treaty exists, it’s not going away no matter how much sniveling and whining goes on. Carry on or put your big boys pants on an just accept reality.You have no idea what your talking about so here’s a bunny with a pancake on its head to keep you occupied!👍 View attachment 876456
I read the link. Where did that apply to any of the tribes involved in the 1836 treaty? A screen shot will do.
Just like most of our States conservation orders if it is not specifically outlawed it’s legal. I do not see any limitation. It really does not matter what we think, has the consent decree been signed by the judge?This is the 1836 language that has sprouted a life of its own. You have to have a wild imagination to get to miles and miles of gill nets from this blurb.
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