[Night Moves]

I think you are right, but I don't know for sure. We need to ask Night Moves cuz he studied the Treaty and Consent completely. Our hundreds of conversations we had in the past 2+years don't mean much.

At least you finally scanned over the Treaty. You come on here acting like an expert being critical of posters but up until now you relied on hearsay for your vast knowledge. You never fail to under impress.

 

[Gordon Casey]

At least you finally scanned over the Treaty. You come on here acting like an expert being critical of posters but up until now you relied on hearsay for your vast knowledge. You never fail to under impress.

Not an expert , just informed. Everyone has an opinion, but some opinions are based on facts. Your post 272 talks about hunting rights only. The Treaty is supported by court decisions, article 13, backed by court rulings confirmed fishing rights. I think the courts ruled that 25% Native heritage makes you a "full patch" Native.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Need to build up your seniority before entering into debates.

 

[ThreeDogsDown]

No DNA tests equal no percentage. Anyone can identify as an indian if they can tell a good story of their heritage.


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[Waif]

Not an expert , just informed. Everyone has an opinion, but some opinions are based on facts. Your post 272 talks about hunting rights only. The Treaty is supported by court decisions, article 13, backed by court rulings confirmed fishing rights. I think the courts ruled that 25% Native heritage makes you a "full patch" Native.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Need to build up your seniority before entering into debates.

The skinny armed N.M.'s guy has been around here quite a while.
Not that seniority matters to debate..

 

[Gordon Casey]

The skinny armed N.M.'s guy has been around here quite a while.
Not that seniority matters to debate..

At least 543 posts worth. He apparently has not followed the hundreds of previous posts on a variety of forums and threads that gives a little background regarding this Consent debate. I'm all for debate, but please bring at least a little bit of knowledge to the party.

 

[Gordon Casey]

No DNA tests equal no percentage. Anyone can identify as an indian if they can tell a good story of their heritage.


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Are you saying that no DNA or birth records are required to be a subsistence hunter and fisher? Just being a card carrying member is all that is required?

 

[Waif]

At least 543 posts worth. He apparently has not followed the hundreds of previous posts on a variety of forums and threads that gives a little background regarding this Consent debate. I'm all for debate, but please bring at least a little bit of knowledge to the party.

I meant quite awhile.
Pre 543.

 

[Zorba]

Are you saying that no DNA or birth records are required to be a subsistence hunter and fisher? Just being a card carrying member is all that is required?

Europeans have been settled in the Great Lakes region for 400 years. A full blooded Indian in this area is nonexistent. Even Cheif Shingwauk, who was one of the signers of the Huron Treaty on the St. Mary’s was 50% European. It’s not about quantum. If you can prove you are a descendant of one of the families that was documented as being a tribal member back in the day, your in.
If you were to dna test todays card holders, it would be hard to find a quantum greater than 1% Native American. 1% is significant. It means one of your Great, Great, Great Grandparents was full blooded.
My wife is a tall blue eyed blonde American of Scandinavian decent. She recently did her dna testing and found out she is %1 equatorial African. She jokes all the time with her Native friends that she’s just as African as they are Native. Lol

 

[Gordon Casey]

Europeans have been settled in the Great Lakes region for 400 years. A full blooded Indian in this area is nonexistent. Even Cheif Shingwauk, who was one of the signers of the Huron Treaty on the St. Mary’s was 50% European. It’s not about quantum. If you can prove you are a descendant of one of the families that was documented as being a tribal member back in the day, your in.
If you were to dna test todays card holders, it would be hard to find a quantum greater than 1% Native American. 1% is significant. It means one of your Great, Great, Great Grandparents was full blooded.
My wife is a tall blue eyed blonde American of Scandinavian decent. She recently did her dna testing and found out she is %1 equatorial African. She jokes all the time with her Native friends that she’s just as African as they are Native. Lol

Excellent explanation! Pretty much defines, per the court interpretation, who is a genuine Native. Thanks for the information. Maybe some of the doubters will get some peace.

 

[Josh R]

Think it will be delayed again?

 

[ThreeDogsDown]

Nope.


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[B.Jarvinen]

I was thinking about this today. What is the actual news that will arrive, to us, the public, when the results of the negotiations are announced?

Just new harvest totals?
Different net zones?
Sport fishing regs changes?
Stocking plans?

My interest in this is largely that last one. But I don’t know if the new Decree ties in to that? Maybe at least on the Federal plants?

I don’t even know what, exactly, is not being agreed amongst the parties involved. Must be something serious, for it too run this late.

 

[ThreeDogsDown]

Sportfishing regulation changes won’t be posted. Most likely there won’t be any changes to sportfishermen regulations.

There won’t be any published changes from the tribes, USFWS or DNR. They don’t want any publicity on this at all. It will covertly be published on the USFWS website when they get around to it, with no announcement.

The way this works “on the water” is you will feel, see, or smell 300’ of “subsistence netting” in front of the Boardman river for example. It won’t be marked except with a plastic milk jug 4’ underwater because it was pulled down by the weight of rotted fish. If your lucky, you will notice it before your motor does.

You will start making calls to the DNR poaching hotline with no answer to your voicemail.

You will call the local DNR office and they may answer or you will leave another voicemail.

If you do get any response from the DNR, it will direct you to the local tribal Law Enforcement office where you can leave a voicemail…with no response.

You can then call the sheriff. He will direct you to the DNR.

You can call the USFWS in Lansing or Washington DC and they will point you to the DNR.

Unless you have an injury or death, you have no recourse. If you do have injury or death, the sheriff may “take the case”. A personal injury lawyer, if you have saved up for this, may file a lawsuit in federal court.

You (or your lawyer) can then call the press, but they won’t run with it because it doesn’t fit their agenda.

You will dig into the new decree (only buried online on the USFWS site) to find that new miles of large mesh gill nets are allowed and now miles of “new small mesh gill nets” are also allowed (I’ve heard through Facebook posts, forum posts, and other publicly available sources).

Once you stop catching fish, after a few expensive trips, you will find another hobby that will be your new entertainment.


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[John Hine]

The question now is; will there be enough “non tribal” folks with balls enough to do what was done mid 80’s? To bend a rule or 2, to badger the local LEO’s into making it a safety issue? Like life & limb safety? My old man is gone now & so is his 40’ tug boat. Someone else will have to relocate them! Lol

 

[John Hine]

They’ll hammer north port this spring! Bye bye perch

 

[Gordon Casey]

Sportfishing regulation changes won’t be posted. Most likely there won’t be any changes to sportfishermen regulations.

There won’t be any published changes from the tribes, USFWS or DNR. They don’t want any publicity on this at all. It will covertly be published on the USFWS website when they get around to it, with no announcement.

The way this works “on the water” is you will feel, see, or smell 300’ of “subsistence netting” in front of the Boardman river for example. It won’t be marked except with a plastic milk jug 4’ underwater because it was pulled down by the weight of rotted fish. If your lucky, you will notice it before your motor does.

You will start making calls to the DNR poaching hotline with no answer to your voicemail.

You will call the local DNR office and they may answer or you will leave another voicemail.

If you do get any response from the DNR, it will direct you to the local tribal Law Enforcement office where you can leave a voicemail…with no response.

You can then call the sheriff. He will direct you to the DNR.

You can call the USFWS in Lansing or Washington DC and they will point you to the DNR.

Unless you have an injury or death, you have no recourse. If you do have injury or death, the sheriff may “take the case”. A personal injury lawyer, if you have saved up for this, may file a lawsuit in federal court.

You (or your lawyer) can then call the press, but they won’t run with it because it doesn’t fit their agenda.

You will dig into the new decree (only buried online on the USFWS site) to find that new miles of large mesh gill nets are allowed and now miles of “new small mesh gill nets” are also allowed (I’ve heard through Facebook posts, forum posts, and other publicly available sources).

Once you stop catching fish, after a few expensive trips, you will find another hobby that will be your new entertainment.


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How is it that some feel they know the detail of the Consent rewrite? Isn't everything we have been discussing been SPECULATION? Unless you or someone you know is is on the negotiating team or has privy (CMPR) to the results, the conclusions we make are just guesses.
Probably sooner than later the Consent will be made public and then we will all know.

 

[Luv2hunteup]

How is it that some feel they know the detail of the Consent rewrite? Isn't everything we have been discussing been SPECULATION? Unless you or someone you know is is on the negotiating team or has privy (CMPR) to the results, the conclusions we make are just guesses.
Probably sooner than later the Consent will be made public and then we will all know.

When one side is negotiating with a perpetual federal treaty in their portfolio and the other side negotiating with nothing more than wishful thinking, which side do you think will come out ahead? Eventually both sides will issue a press release announcing that they received the best deal possible under the circumstances.

 

[Luv2hunteup]

My best guess is that the tribes will not agree amongst themselves delaying any agreement between tribes and the DNR.

 

[Cork Dust]

Two tribal members among the five CORA tribes regected the package. Each will seek settlement via arbitration with the State. I was told that,, of 54 tribal licenses issued, 16 of them are actually active on a routine basis. These fishers want the right to fish within ALL Treaty of 1836 waters. The second issue is the declining whitefish stocks and low price for lake trout, which has prompted the push for expanded species and tribal harvest quotas.

 

[ThreeDogsDown]

16 active gill netters vs 1.083 million fishing licenses sold in the state of Michigan in 2021. 16 v 1 million.

And we still give them everything they want.

Upside down clown world out here.


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