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I understand why Non-Disclosure Agreements are part of the ongoing negotiations. Makes sense.

But I think the public could at least be allowed to know when negotiators are actually negotiating, when the next round starts, has the Judge set another new deadline, etc., etc. Instead all we get to hear is “during this recent round of negotiations” - there were some negotiations. That’s it. Same news for - 3? - years running now. Next?
On June 30th it was extended 90 days
 

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My understanding is that the Fed's, State and Natives are the only stake holders in this Consent Decree re write. Don't know much about the CPMR group, I'm thinking they are a watch dog group for the MI anglers. They are probably used for reference information regarding angler interest.
This lawsuit from CPMR is just a feudal attempt to publicaly make known what they are proposing and are frustrated that they are getting nowhere. They were probably told by the bargainers to just go away.
You are (your) right, Luv2 the lawyers are going to make the bucks and the CPMR will get public lip service in letting the MI anglers know what they proposed and was disregarded.
Some people sent money to help the cause.....should have spent the money on lures.
Brief History – Coalition to Protect MI Resources
 

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Regarding this Consent Decree issue, What can our legislators do.......absolutely nothing. It is really not a State issue, it's the Natives and the Fed's. The Consent comes into play to better define the Treaty of 1836.
The decree is completely a state issue. What can legislators do? They hold the purse strings to the dnr. Just like Wisconsin legislators did, they can threaten funding if the dnr is not acting for the interests of the citizens.
 

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I fail to understand your reasoning. The State of Michigan is represented in these negotiations by the folks appointed as participants by the state fish and game management agency. The CORA affiliated tribe have both a stake in the outcome and mqgnified clout in these negotiations since they are supported via the Federal Courts, largely as a conequence of previous decisions that have set in place precedent supporting their base contentions with regard to the interpretation of the Treaty of 1836 resource access and apportionment, though that is not mentioned within the language of the treaty. The Federal government has a dual role, since they are both an overseer party, as well as a de facto agent of the Federal Courts. While you paint a picture implying that the State legislator's have both a role and responsibiliy to act punitively if the State's interests are not fully supported in the final document, the option the other two parties have is to simply stand-pat in their demands array and wait for the Federal Courts to intervene and force a settlement, apportioning the resource among the two user groups. I certainly don't see an effective and potentially facilitative role for intervention(s) via the State of Michigan's elected officials that could possibly result in a beneficial outcome that would be collectively acceptable to them, or the tribes. Per your logic, the State legilsators can penalize the State appointed negotiators and the agency who chose them by penalizing them for being in an untenable position to negotiate an equitable settlement.

The other interesting point, outlined by Gordon Casey in a previous post in this thread. indirectly: BOTH the State sport fishers and the CORA affiliated tribes derive revenues from this fishery, directly, as well as through Dingell-Johnson Revenue distributions. Coastal communities, private vendors, repair and sales facilites for boats and fishing equipment,restaurants, grocery stores, etc. all derive significant seasonal income from the fishery participants, aleit significantly greater on the sport fisher side when compared to the tribal commercial fishery. The Federal Government, via its fish and game management agency, as well as the Federal Courts derive no direct revenue stream from the Great Lakes fishery; an "interesting position" for them to be in when apportioning an equitable distribution of the physical resource of Great Lakes fish, yet they hold a disproportionately large role in directing/forcing the outcome of the Consent Decree negotiations- no direct benefits; no direct penalties....
Statement i was responding to was "What can legislators do?" and "It's really not a state issue". I am not advocating for this action. Just saying it is one they could take.
 

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Read the treaty along with the court rulings. Recreational fisherman along with the charter boat special interest groups chose not to be at the treaty signing in 1836. That’s the reason they don’t get a seat at the table. The treaty along with all the subsequent court rulings are Federal issues but the State is there for fisheries management. Recreational fisherman can fish the waters outside the treaty area and are free to lobby the DNR on what they feel is appropriate.
Again. What is your special interest group? Mine is recreational fisherman. What is yours? My interest is to have the tribes have the same rights to the resource as any other person in this region. No more, No less. And I will continue to fight for this belief until the day I die. Will I win? Maybe not. But I also won't sit on my hands and accept it because someone didn't sit at a table 186 years ago.
 

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The question now is; will there be enough “non tribal” folks with balls enough to do what was done mid 80’s? To bend a rule or 2, to badger the local LEO’s into making it a safety issue? Like life & limb safety? My old man is gone now & so is his 40’ tug boat. Someone else will have to relocate them! Lol
I'm guessing there will be plenty. Messing with the nets will just cause bigger safety issues. Net boats however may have unexpected issues.
 

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And all the tribe gave up is the ceded territories for settlement and shared rights to the Great Lakes fisheries. . Who got the better end of that deal?
The tribes did. Because their other option was to be wiped out like other conquered cultures. The Fed Govt makes, breaks, and restructures deals every day. Unfortunately as said at nauseum in this thread the greater public opinion in the US sides with the tribes.

The option afforded to sport fisherman of this state and states who border the Great Lakes with treaty waters is to inflict enough pain on the tribes that they once again choose to play nice.
 

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813, 814, and 815 is where it says gill nets will be allowed those arent by the Betsie or Platte
View attachment 871040
Remember the info that came out is just a small snapshot of a couple issues ruled on by the judge. It in no way covers all the areas that will be open to gill netting if and when this decree is finalized.
 

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Here ya go. It's public. Enjoy the light reading

The Department and Executive Office of the Governor have been working towards negotiating a new Great Lakes Consent Decree with the U.S. government and with Michigan’s tribal governments that have rights reserved under the 1836 Treaty of Washington. After more than three years of negotiations, a new proposed decree was submitted to the U.S. District Court Sunday and is now a public document. Six of the seven parties in this negotiation were able to reach agreement on this proposed decree. The Sault Tribe is not supporting the document and has asked the court to be allowed to self-regulate and not be bound by any Great Lakes decree. U.S. District Court Judge Paul Maloney will be holding a hearing and status conference with all Parties on Dec. 16. The Department will learn more about next steps at that time.

Right now, the 2000 Consent Decree remains in effect without a firm expiration date. The proposed Decree that is now public, is NOT in effect, and will not be unless and until it is ordered by the court.

I am sure that this document will create substantial interest from the members of the Advisory Committee, given that the state has been bound by confidentiality and silent on this process for 3-plus years. If you have any questions related to the Decree, please direct them to Dave Caroffino, Tribal Coordination Unit Manager ([email protected]) . Upon implementation of a new decree, we will schedule a meeting with any or all the Great Lakes Advisory Committee’s at your next scheduled meeting to explain the content of the document and answer questions.

Jim Dexter
DNR Fisheries Chief
Constitution Hall
525 W. Allegan Street
Lansing, MI 48933

 

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Around 1.1 million fishing licenses were issued in 2021. I'm betting the vast majority of license holders don't have any idea what the CPMR represent, heck a few on here don't know about them. Isn't the main force behind the CPMR the charter groups, salmon, trout organizations, basically a big water fishery. They are a small special interest group who do NOT have many of those 1.1 million license holders. Let's put this issue into perspective.

Most license's are purchased by people that fish inland lakes, for pan fish, a few times per year.

I'm sorta with you on this gill net issue. We are all only guessing what impact this netting practice will have on the overall fishery. I'm not happy at all that gill nets were allowed. Extreme groups, CPMR, will say it will devastate the fishery, maybe another extreme group, the DNR is saying it will have little impact. The truth is somewhere in between,

By the looks of it, the Tribes had a solid case for using gill nets, the court sided with them in every case.
MY opinion is that gill nets MAY be OK, providing the Tribes catch only what they are allowed. Without enforcement gill nets MAY NOT be OK.
How about walleye fisherman in Bay De Noc, Nothern LP, and Eastern UP great Lakes? Perch fishermen in the Little, West, and East Traverse bays? Bass fisherman around the Western Northern LP? MUCC is a member of the CPMR and they represent a huge variety of sportsman clubs and individuals.

I guarantee that many of the individuals who attend these hearings have done more to improve and enhance sportfishing in this state than you have even thought about.
 
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