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I can't believe that there are upland hunters that seem to think this is OK....
I can't believe that bird hunters put dogs through all the risks and abuse out there but see this as the deal breaker.
Has anyone listened to PF podcast #59.
I truly feel that this is blown way out of proportion.
I believe the internet stream adds to it as well.
 

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It’s been a while since I listened to it but think towards the end it puts a nice perspective on how low of a risk your dog has to have an issue with a “mean seed”. Also all the other dangers out there as described above. One of the best pieces of advice given in previous post I’ve seen was to brush your dog while doing a tailgate check to help eliminate any issues. I’m 36 and have had a bird dog or two since I was 18 and have been around bird dogs since I was a young kid and have luckily never had an issue nor any of my hunting buddies or acquaintances. This includes hunting all over mi and out west. As mentioned above many many other things that are probably going to cause a problem. It’s good to be aware of the potential and be diligent in your tailgate checks but to be paranoid or scared about these should never overcome the enjoyment of upland hunting.
 

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I can't believe that there are upland hunters that seem to think this is OK....
Of coarse we all would prefer CRP not use it, but will it keep me from putting down a dog to hunt? No. Do I blame a habitat organization like Pheasant Forever? No. I manage the risk the best I can and accept I can’t control everything.
 

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This is a picture of my setter Asher. Youll notice his left eye is a different shade than his right eye. Thats because his right eye got punctured by a hawthorne and the tip of it broke off in his eye, and it is now embedded inside if it. The medical bills cost me thousands and even worse, he almost died. The vet says he most likely has very limited vision in that eye.

At a habitat project a couple springs ago, my rgs chapter planted many fruit bearing trees/shrubs which included thornapple. Does that mean RGS hates hunting dogs and it is a conspiracy? Of course not. I still personally have no aversion to hunting thornapple.

As many others have stated, dogs can get hurt in a million ways.

I always thoroughly check my dog after hunting, and get him the best medical care available when he is sick/injured. But to not hunt him because of concerns of injury would be cruel to him. Because I love him, I take him hunting!
 

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This is a picture of my setter Asher. Youll notice his left eye is a different shade than his right eye. Thats because his right eye got punctured by a hawthorne and the tip of it broke off in his eye, and it is now embedded inside if it. The medical bills cost me thousands and even worse, he almost died. The vet says he most likely has very limited vision in that eye.

At a habitat project a couple springs ago, my rgs chapter planted many fruit bearing trees/shrubs which included thornapple. Does that mean RGS hates hunting dogs and it is a conspiracy? Of course not. I still personally have no aversion to hunting thornapple.

As many others have stated, dogs can get hurt in a million ways.

I always thoroughly check my dog after hunting, and get him the best medical care available when he is sick/injured. But to not hunt him because of concerns of injury would be cruel to him. Because I love him, I take him hunting!
Chase is 14 and had a similar incident involving head trauma and knocked the lense loose.He also goes into seizures if he runs hard.He has been benched for eleven years due to the fact he simply hit his head running.
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My two shorthairs Dixie and Annie caught parvovirus before the rounds of vaccines were done.They were lifeless within two days.I spent thousands then finished the treatment including intravenous injection for another week.
I also lost a puppy under odd circumstances previous to Dixie and Annie.
She was part of the gang and would sleep with the boys like it was there mother.One day I came home from work and let them out.I heard a big dog bark mean and the puppy cried running away. I went out and picked her up.Her neck started to swell suddenly so I ran to the vet.He couldn't figure it out but it was not blood.There was no mark at all..Then he heard something in the stethoscope and said you need to hurry to blue pearl.
She progressively got worse and I stared flying down the road.She crawled into my lap and stared at me.1 minute from blue pearl and she closed her eyes and stopped breathing.I was heartbroken.Devastated.They tried there best but I was to late.I wish I knew about blue pearl and went straight there because of the time wasted.They couldn't ventilate her.It was leaking under her skin.
The medical examination was that she had a tiny tracheal tear from the bite.
She was a beautiful dog.She had a keen nose and would carry it high a 100 yards and find things like a turtle, dead bird,and twice she found eggs.
She was my daughter's best friend and they were joined at the hip.That was the hardest phone call I have ever made in my life.The emotions were unbearable.
Fast forward 6 years.
The two males are still alive and I have brought Dixie, Annie,and Penny in to our home with no issues but I was concerned to say the least and all is good and I'm having the time of my life currently.
Three of my best pointers today.Two 6 year old ace shorthairs with game and a setter pup that is a shining star at the moment.
I have evolved into the live like I was dying mentality and the dogs get spoiled.If a dog or I dies I will have no regrets and always strive to do what we love.Hunt birds.
 

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My old flatcoated retriever Kailey, caught a stick in the eye while hunting when she was about 6. I watched it happen right in front of me and she gave a yelp. She laid down and started rubbing it with her paw. I went over expecting to see the worst, including blood. No blood, but I could see an injury to her cornea. We weren't far from my driveway, so I got her back to the cabin, I dumped the gear and took her straight to the vet. They used numbing drops, put the dye in and used a black light to examine the injury. She had a heavy scratch right across the middle of the lens. They gave me some antibiotic drops so it wouldn't get infected and lose the eye, also steroid drops to minimize scarring. From then on, I could tell she had a little deficits and she couldn't look up directly in the light without squinting. I always felt bad for her, she was such a good dog. We went through a few rough times together, including a car accident. Other than the eye, she's had a few quills in her lips and an indirect skunking when she had one holed up in a raspberry patch, looking for a bird. When I put her down finally, I stopped bird hunting for a while.
 

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Dont have a hunting dog at this time and dont live in southern mi. Where its a problem, just doesnt make any sense!
I am curious where in Michigan is it at then. It is up north and in the UP.You do realize it is here naturally.Listen to the podcast and learn more.
It is listed on this pdf list in Grand Traverse as native
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Then it is also on the dunes list.
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A dog can pick up an awn grouse hunting in grass edges or old trees with grass.
 

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Had a grass awn issue last year while hunting in northern Michigan. Started in October and ended with major surgery in December. She was back a in the field this past fall and had
a great season with her. I can not tell you where we picked it up but we were not hunting fields. I have more concern with the dog getting speared jumping over a downed dead pine or cedar. Have done that before too!
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Just for the record this was a general statement and not directed to anyone specifically.
My grandfather had a saying "If your afraid to ride a horse then don't ride one"
Good old words of wisdom, i quess, except the hunters not the one suffering the seed awn, the dog is. Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #51
These seeds were here before PF and pheasants just for the record!;)
This post was never about what risks occur in nature. EVERY bird hunter and houndsman knows his dogs are at risk every time they take them out. The post is about manufacturing additional (unnecessary) risks; so, I really don't know what your point is. This post is about why support an organization that does just that and puts our dogs at more risks than already exist. As an Update: the DNR has recognized the problem and is treating this Pheasants Forever field in question with an herbicide that will kill the Canadian Rye. So again, why support an organization that requires this seed? I'm done posting to this topic (If I can help myself).
 

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I do agree that it may create additional risks possibly but compared to what.
PF as an organization does not "require" the seed it is the Gov't.
Is the risk measurable.Is there data to support this risk.
I know that when it comes to forestry that everytime they clear cut areas it creates additional risk by leaps and bounds by way of puncture but it also creates habitat for grouse.
In addition to that clear cuts also induce the growth of grasses including Canadian rye.
My moms place was logged two years ago with a majority being giant pines with no ground floral in the front that is now full of grasses and looks like a CRP field.
There was some Canadian rye I believe in it unless it was a different rye.
I also see it on hap lands which are not seeded.
On a side note they do pulpy brush management along fence rows and wood lots so trees don't take over and creep into crp fields.
This leaves spikes in the ground and in three outings we have had two dogs puncture a foot.
My point was that back in the pheasant heyday in Michigan that Canadian rye was more common with the type of habitat back then.
The attack on an organization that creates pheasants to hunt and restoration of wildlife habitat is ridiculous considering that the larger argument is we don't have pheasants in Michigan anymore which upsets a lot of people.
Yesterday we saw around 20 roosters and at least that many hens in the late season and I for one am greatful for the work they have done.
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Thank you Pheasants Forever
You have earned my lifetime membership along with my other yearly contributions and keep up the good work!
 

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Because PF says it's OK.
1. PF is always right
2. If PF is wrong refer to rule #1
Anything to promote your dump and shoot program with off the cuff comment.

As mentioned above a gentleman's dog (DanP)acquired a mean seed in northern Michigan.It is a native grass.

Now considering the fact that grouse and woodcock are the primary game birds in Michigan and in the woods and clear cuts your dog is actually at risk in an environment where we created more risk.
And Pheasants forever provides seed mixes of all types including what "your government " requires for crp.This is not what PF mandates whatsoever.

Your statement that PF says it's ok belongs to you.They did not make this statement.
Now for your little socialist chicken dumping program did you assess the lands in use to make sure no mean seeds are there.
Otherwise you may be baiting people to bring there dogs into contact with it.

Then again you say there's no pheasants in Michigan so there's no reason to put your dogs in the fields anyhow.
A true Robin hood to rob Peter to pay Paul .For 25 bucks you can shoot all the pheasants you want on someone else's dime even though you didn't cover the cost of two birds.SMH.
 

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Ahhh now I'm a socialist, says the guy who promotes an organization that spends gazillions of taxpayer money to support his "hunt". Enjoy your 25% of the revenue for habitat projects because your cherished PF is going to be in its death throes due to the government not giving them any money.

And calling me a dump n hunt, that's laughable, you guys make the worst assumptions and believe anything PF pours down your throat. The fact of the matter is I stuck with MPHI and the stamp like I did out of spite for PF, I hunt primarily in Montana and have 4 trips this year so far and have one more elk hunt next month. I am telling you this because I have plenty of money and time to hunt wherever I want and I don't need an organization to show or tell me what and where I should hunt.

Now if you want to see conservation, go to Montana. They make your cherished SD look like Michigan in comparison for upland game.

Whether the seed was already here or not its asinine to plant more of it.
 

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This post was never about what risks occur in nature. EVERY bird hunter and houndsman knows his dogs are at risk every time they take them out. The post is about manufacturing additional (unnecessary) risks; so, I really don't know what your point is. This post is about why support an organization that does just that and puts our dogs at more risks than already exist. As an Update: the DNR has recognized the problem and is treating this Pheasants Forever field in question with an herbicide that will kill the Canadian Rye. So again, why support an organization that requires this seed? I'm done posting to this topic (If I can help myself).
No doubt, the only point they make is that PF podcast XX and PF digest said that so it's the gospel. Organizations do stupid things until their membership asks them not to, the problem with Michigan PF is they squelch any dissent and shun those who defect from the opinions of very few who are in charge of the Ponzi scheme.
 

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And I really hope you guys with dogs use the grounds with releases and take people hunting. I also really hope you use these ground to run your dogs because I don't believe the added dog running of wild pheasant is very good at all.
 
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