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I have complained to PF numerous times about there mix with mean seeds. Howard and others just make up excuses on why they need it in there mix. I say that mix should not be used by them at all.
 

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I have complained to PF numerous times about there mix with mean seeds. Howard and others just make up excuses on why they need it in there mix. I say that mix should not be used by them at all.
CRP requires it not PHEASANT FOREVER
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I have complained to PF numerous times about there mix with mean seeds. Howard and others just make up excuses on why they need it in there mix. I say that mix should not be used by them at all.
Better not to plant on CRP than plant seeds harmful to dogs! CRP requiring it is not an excuse. Just dont get the reasoning behind this.
 

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The coalition for reason on this site is growing very weak...buy yourself a brush for your dog and go hunting. The fact that PF doing habitat work is somehow being portrayed as a bad thing is absurd.
A brush won't work in the eye, up the nose, down the throat.
 

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Paranoia knows no bounds. There are a whole bunch of things, that ultimately lead people away from Bird dog‘s.

After 50 years with dogs, and only one with a foot injury that may or may not have been caused by potentially a piece of wheat stubble (but I have also lost a couple dogs to car injuries), I can say that the whole seed thing is right up there with the other stupid stuff that makes owning a bird dog so unpleasant for the paranoid, that they drop out of the hobby.
For comparison, I expect annual encounters with porcupines.

Being a hunting dog is hard. They chase their nose. Their nose can’t tell a bad weed from a good one. An owner can, so maybe a person can learn to identify them and steer their dog away from them on the occasion that they think they might see one. That might be enough to change the risk from one out of 1 million, to one out of 5 million. Right up there with being struck by lightning while you’re taking a piss.

So yes, because of decades of experience, I think this whole thing is overblown and I think it’s mostly promoted to generate eyeballs, YouTube hits, and promote conversation about magazine articles.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
I cant share the link, but if you go to the Michigan Beaglers site on FB and read the post by Rachel Lucas you'll see how bad this stuff is.
 

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I cant share the link, but if you go to the Michigan Beaglers site on FB and read the post by Rachel Lucas you'll see how bad this stuff is.
I believe this is the promotion that gamekeeper mentioned.
The internet information stream makes things larger than life.
I have been at it for well over 30 years.
I have owned fast dogs with reckless abandonment, dogs less agile(somewhat clumbsy).then dogs that will take on any cover imaginable (briars, stubble, corn, horrendous clear cuts, autumn olive) and lengthy at that.
Between training, conditioning, scouting, and hunting I can say I probably hit around 800 to 1000 hrs a year.
I have experienced sprains,concussions, heat stroke,skin tears,punctures,eye injuries, a dislocated leg,barbwire,lacerations, car hits,a rattlesnake bite, coon damage,groundhog damage,and porcupines I can't even count.
Even a nasty ice auger cut.
I'm sure I could think of more.
However I have not encountered a mean seed issue yet.
All my dogs lived past 14 except one that died at nine.
I have multiple dogs at a time for my recreational passion.
That alone is enough to scare someone from putting a dog to the ground I suppose then.
To be fair this thread title should be about the Federal government's seed program and not PF.The government institute's this as their land restoration seed package.
Pics of the last injury Nov 9 foot swells twice the size,then it festered out by the time I came home,the 13th she layed down an incredible run.
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18 Show Content
20201110_153825.jpg
20201109_212002.jpg

She hunted 3 days prior and was probably carrying on with it with no signs of discomfort.
I'll add that rattlesnakes are at highland and ionia field trial grounds.
 

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On The Wing podcast episode 59 by Pheasant Forever. Listen to this to understand there stand better.

sorry I am not smart enough to make a link.
 

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I agree with gamekeeper this thing is way over blown just like that covid virus I mean hell the chances of dying are very very slim! The only people that need to worry are those with underlying health problems! you know like those dog owners that can't tell good weeds from bad weeds .
 

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Discussion Starter #32
What a
I agree with gamekeeper this thing is way over blown just like that covid virus I mean hell the chances of dying are very very slim! The only people that need to worry are those with underlying health problems! you know like those dog owners that can't tell good weeds from bad weeds .
Wow, what a jump in reasoning!
 

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If your worried about grass awns and it makes you fearful then hang up your vest.There are so many other fears you best stay home.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
If your worried about grass awns and it makes you fearful then hang up your vest.There are so many other fears you best stay home.
Dont have a hunting dog at this time and dont live in southern mi. Where its a problem, just doesnt make any sense!
 

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Dont have a hunting dog at this time and dont live in southern mi. Where its a problem, just doesnt make any sense!
Just for the record this was a general statement and not directed to anyone specifically.
My grandfather had a saying "If your afraid to ride a horse then don't ride one"
 

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But they offer it and they don't have too, they have other mixes to sell. If people want a mix with bad stuff in it they can find it from other distributers not PF.
They offer it to those people enrolled in CRP. Every state has a mix required for there CRP and yes PF will sell it to them. They also have mixes without the seeds. Your beef should be with CRP requiring it not with a habitat organization supplying it. Quite frankly it does provide good cover for pheasants. CRPs main goal is not pheasants or dogs but protecting soil and water. PF just uses it as a tool to provide habitat for birds.
 

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The real demise or death of a bird dog is the host.
No birds would then mean no need for bird dogs
 

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I work in the Ag sector and sit on the NRCS Michigan Technical committee, which is just a group of Ag/natural resource stakeholders who advise NRCS and FSA on Michigan-specific farm Bill stuff. I can tell you that attempts are being made to update these mix requirements, and dropping the mean seeds (specifically Virginia Wild Rye) from the required list is something that we’re pushing for. Unfortunately these changes happen slowly, but the discussion is ongoing. Virginia Wild rye is in there to begin with because it’s a cool season grass that behaves more like our native warm season grasses - thick-stemmed, tall, and clumpy - but grows extensively in the early years of a planting when the warm seasons are still devoting much of their energy to root production. So it does provide good habitat, and quickly. I think the idea that PF should stop offering seed for CRP plantings over this is laughable, but I agree that they could do a better job advertising these mixes as specifically for CRP so folks buying seeds for other types of projects know that they can pick a mix without these species.

I actually bought some seed from PF a few years back for some on-farm testing we were doing, and I called up their seed department and asked for one of their MI CRP mixes without the Wild rye. They happily customized the mix for me.
 
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