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Do you agree with the early youth deer hunt proposed for late September?
RESPONSE VOTES PERCENT GRAPH
yes 143 47.67 %
no 157 52.33 %
TOTAL 300 100.00 % ..

this is the poll for this site. what is wrong with a youth hunt?the first time I get to hunt with a shotgun will be the day of that youth hunt IF they still have it. what do people have against future generations having a day to hunt by themselves? . sad......
 

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Trapper Carl you must be less then 17 as you know adults can not carry a gun or hunt while participating in the youth hunts. There are 2 types of hunts. Deer and waterfowl. Probably what happened in the poll you are talking about were people against it voting multible times. Anybody that has any knowledge of the new hunters verses retired hunters know that the hunter numbers are declining. Only with a boost of new hunters will our numbers rebound. The youth hunt is set up to help in 2 areas. #1- Get young hunters involved with our great outdoor activity with a good opertunity to see and harvest unsuspecting game. Due to the increase in hunter numbers after the start of Bow and waterfowl seasons opener the game are what we call educated. With the earlier youth hunts they are not as wary. #2 The hunt also is designed to give the youth all the tools to help make clear and safe choices as they must be accompanied with an adult 17 years or older [ who can not carry a firearm or bow or take any game ]. So safety issues will be addressed, hunting tactics will be taught 1 on 1, shooting range and so on. I believe it is truely a great way to start the season for our new unseasoned hunters. There are a few people out there that have good arguments on this issue reguarding traditions and it is a good one. But I believe without hunts like this that should increase our fraternity of hunters that we may have our heritage taken away by the anti hunting organizations that are running rampant across our great country. Traditions always die hard, but new ones always seem to take there place.....

[This message has been edited by Coldwater Charters (edited 12-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Coldwater Charters (edited 12-18-2000).]
 

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Originally posted by trappercarl:
what is wrong with a youth hunt?the first time I get to hunt with a shotgun will be the day of that youth hunt IF they still have it. what do people have against future generations having a day to hunt by themselves? . sad......
trappercarl, too many bow hunters are afraid you are going to shoot their buck.



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Trapper Carl, I would gladly give up a chance at any buck with the knowlege that it was taken by a teen in the youth hunt. <----<<<

[This message has been edited by Joe Archer (edited 12-19-2000).]
 

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I am one of the folks that is worried about the early youth hunt, I am a bowhunter but it is not for selfish reasons that I don't like the early season.
My biggest problem is the statement "This season was designed to encourage new hunters to partake in our sport."
I think that is hogwash, and I think the season is discriminatory.
If Indeed we are trying to attract new deer hunters, why are we only looking to attract hunters between the ages of 14 and 16? I think a season designed to attract "NEW" deer hunters should let anyone that has never bought a deer license, or have never gotten a deer before partake in this season. Perhaps these new deer hunter folks would attract their own kids to try it as well, overall adding more new hunters than a youth hunt alone.
The only prolem with that scenario is we may attract "too many" new deer hunters, and then it would sound like Nov. 15 in late September. So the DNR opts only to offer the season to a certain age class.... discriminatory.
The largest factor in declining youths is not a game availability or a wariness issue...there are plenty of deer and rabbits out there. Ask Stelmon why he hasn't been out hunting lately. The largest reason in the decline of youth hunters is the lack of adults with the time, energy, and experience to take them. After a youth turns 17, he has a drivers license and can go on his own....these are the new hunters that we should try and attract.
I think allowing a certain age class to hunt a special early season is pretty dramatic. Did the DNR keep records on exactly how many NEW youths this season attracted? Youths that had never hunted deer before? If so, by what percentage did our deer hunter numbers increase? Did these new youths enjoy the season? Will they return? If that data was not collected, how do we know the youth season did anything to boost numbers at all?
I killed my first deer (a doe) on Nov 15th. with a rifle when I was 14 with my dad. It was so danged easy that I dropped the rifle for life, and have since taken 40 some odd deer w/ my bow. How much easier do we need to make it?
I am all for a "youth" shooting his first deer. What a wonderful experience especially with dad there to witness. However, I am just as excited when ANY hunter shoots their first deer.
This season was implemented to increase the odds of a first time youth hunter shooting a deer and hooking him for life. Doesn't this go directly against the attitude we try to instill in our peers that the actual kill is not what hunting is about? But we create a special early season for youths to make that first kill as easy as possible, therefore setting the precedent for these youths????
The magic in hunting is the challenge, not the kill.

The largest reason for the decline in hunter numbers is time, coupled with the intimidation. Deer hunting is no longer grabbing a rifle, a license, some orange, and hitting the woods with your buddies. It now involves hunter safety classes, high tech equipment, knowledge of the high tech equipment, a regulation book 2 inches thick, a million scents, a million calls, tree stands, 25000 how to books, scouting, obtaining permission to hunt private land, practicing, practicing, and more practicing, finding people to hunt with, more regulations, land leases, deer physiology, deer habits, TB, field dressing, deer processing, cooking venison, and a jillion other things that a new hunter feels he must know nowadays to be successful in this pursuit.
It is very intimidating. It is also very time consuming.
How about an early season that allows any rookie hunter to be accompanied by a "veteran"?

I also worry about the early season youths that shot their "easy" deer for the year, and then called it quits before the real season starts. Shorting themselves of the magic of bowhunting, the colors of fall, deer camp the first week of Nov., Muzzleloading in the snow, the bucks runnin crazy during the rut. How many youths participated in these things in an effort to fill a second buck tag?? These things are what make hunting so appealing. Not just killing an early season stupid easy buck.....that is sad.....

Just my opinion,
Hunt

 

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Trapper Carl,
At first I was all for this hunt.Then the reports of dad's finishing off deer,or just plain shooting the deer started coming in.
On proud dad even proclaimed that while his boy missed the first shot,he grabbed the shotgun and shot "Because I thought it was wounded".Also the tradition is that a kid looks forward to Nov.15th to hunt with dad and the grownups.I know I did.As far as drawing new blood in with a special hunt just for them is bunk.The regular season is already limited to kids of the same age and older so nothing is gained.
As far as hunting without the crowds on state land...well,State land will be crowded during the regular hunt and they might as well get used to it,or start getting your list of private land hunting spots lined up.
We are losing hunter numbers because of a lack of new blood,but it's because PARENTS aren't taking their kids hunting,not because kids don't have a special season,and I'll be the first to tell you most parents aren't gonna traipse around after their kid hunting if they cannot hunt themselves.
Soccer,little league etc. have become "Drop off" baby sitters so parents can go screw off,or take care of errands that they can't get to during their 12hr work day.Lack of parental involvement is the number one complaint from teachers,principals,youth sports coaches,and ministers,and some say the root of the exloding youth crime.
If dad wont take little Johnny hunting during regular season,he darn sure isn't gonna give up the nascar race to do so in the youth season.
If we wnat new blood in the sport lets have the DNR put pressure on the state education big wigs,so the left leaning schools will be FORCED to allow Hunters education in the school,or make it manditory for all students like it is in some county in Ohio and other states.As it is now it's hard to find enough instructors,to handle the number of kids.
The new blood is choked.
Just thoughts.Pat
 

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In the name of the father....the son....and the holy.....
Just kidding, no long winded sermon coming here :) I just want to say that if it weren't for the special season my son would not have learned to shoot my 308, would not have taken to the woods with a rifle, and would not have taken his first deer with a gun. For us, it was definitely motivational. For one father and son, the DNR hit the nail on the head. <----<<<
 

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After reading the above long winded comments, I have to agree and still believe that most of the negatives about the youth hunt come from not only bow hunters but other (adults) that are worried about a kid shooting thier deer.The youth hunt was on private land only. I would have liked to see it on state land too. Some of us are limited to state land only.I know there are a lot of bow hunters out there that dont all feel the same. But it sure seems like a lot of negative and high handed comments come from bow hunters.If its not the youth hunt its the bird hunters or the squirrel hunters or thier dogs.Or I'am too good to use a gun!Not too run all bow hunters down but just follow the comments made here and other sites.No,I dont bow hunt.Iam not against it or any form of hunting or trapping.Why run other people down for the way they do things?Theres enough negatives out there without running downour own people. Now I'am getting long winded.Lets try to be positive to all who hunt!
 

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I heard alot about traditions on the post here and in the past posts about how traditions will not be the same. Well I don't agree!!! Take a second to think about what I'm about to say. First the youth goes out and hunts on their day with an adult guide[Father, grandfather, friend, neighbor]. Talk about tradition Now there is something real. There with the person the youth looks up to in most cases will be by there side every moment helping and guiding them through there hunt. Next year its Janeys turn and the next its Toms turn to go out with grandad. Now that is a tradition I would like to see. The tradition we have now are really for the adults, there memories and stories of years past. As far as the youth being left out on this tradition you forget what it is to be a kid with a group of adults doing the same thing. They finally feel part of the big boy community on our traditional dates in our hunting season. The youth hunt by no means take away from that tradition of opening day IT IS A DIFFERENT ATMOSPHERE and you know exactly what I'm talking about. All the stories about dad or the adults shooting the game are overblown out of proportion by people who don't agree with the hunt. I have yet to hear from the horses mouth that the adult shot the deer it is always through a 3rd party or even just hearsay. The people that make these accusations without evidence should take a second and think. If I don't know for a fact then I shouldn't spread gossiup cause really that's all it is. I think the DNR came up with an excellent program designed not only to get more new people into our sport but to teach and guide them along the way. 3 Cheers For this program. Notice, I did not say anyone who thought my way was bad is stupid. People who use name calling tactics and downgrade others only show there own true colors to other people. This is just my oppinion I would not got to war over it but I think it it a great program.
 

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It seems like there's alot more of the 'instant gratification' mentality nowadays then there used to be.

I feel the early season takes away the anticipation and 'traditions' of the regular firearms deer camp. Seems like the early season is focused upon the kill opportunities, versus the experience.

I also highly doubt that any 'fresh blood' is inducted into the hunting fraternity as a result of the youth hunt. In point of fact, I'd bet that 100% of the youth participating would have been out there on Nov 15th with Dad, Gramps, Uncle Charlie, etc. and had just as much - if not more - fun as they did during the youth hunt.

And before I get crucified, I could give a rip less about the deer that were killed..... we have LOTS of deer to go around in this state.

It is my opinion that if the DNR truly wants to encourage NEW youthful hunters to the sport, the firearm deer hunting age should be dropped to 12, and the rule that an adult must accompany those under age 17 should be dropped to 15. Also let kids age 12-16 shoot either-sex deer with their kill tag.

Just my .02
 

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Yes I support the early youth hunt. It was also supported by the Michigan Bow Hunters Association and stated as such before the Natural Resources Commission. So just to set the record staight all bow hunters don't fit your mold terry.
 

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To all you fellas for the youth hunt, what is to be gained by an early hunt? Most every hunter in the woods today was taught by someone. It didn't require a special hunt to achieve this. Perhaps, it did. A special hunt with someone that cared enough about them as a person and the sport that they taught. It doesn't matter if it was a father taking his child afield as soon as they were able to walk, or you taking a friend of yours that expressed an interest in the craft. You see, it doesn't matter what age they are. It matters, that you educate others. Youth only is descriminatory. If you want the experience of taking a youngster out and letting them do the hunting, then I suggest you leave your gun in the case and start a tradition that way. Once the child is 14, designate the first week of season to the youth. Dad can have the last week. After all, how many times has dad hunted before. If you don't have a son or daughter, maybe you know of someone who doesn't have a teacher. I hunt with a bow as well as with a gun. Some dear friends have taught me their craft and it was life changing. My father taught me how to hunt, but because of physical problems we only rifle hunted. He taught me how to shoot a bow, but by the time I was old enough he couldn't. As a bowhunter, I don't care about the intrusion. My point is this: If you want a youth to hunt, then take a youth hunting.
Squig
 

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JOE ARCHER
[Why would you say your son would not have learned or experienced all the things he did without the early youth season? Why couldn't he have learned them after Nov 15? I was a little concerned when the DNR announced this special season and now I think I had good reason. I'm convinced this is not a plan to introduce new hunters as much as another ploy by the Insurance lobby and Farm Bureau to further reduce the deer herd in Michigan.
I too am very interested in getting the youth of Michigan interested in hunting but I think the are better ways to do it.
I have a grandson that is only 4 yrs old, but myself and my son can't wait to introduce him to all the wonders of the outdoors and I wont wait until he turns 14 to do that. I spent a lot of time with my kids even though I worked overtime,coached their sports teams and was involved in school activities we still spent as much time in the outdoors as we could and believe me it has paid off.
They are 26 & 22 yrs old and can teach Dad a thing or two about hunting or fishing, and love the sports even more than I do.
It's just to bad that all parents don't realize until it's too late how gratifying it is to spend a lot of time with your kids and see the rewards it reaps.
Sorry for the long post I hadn't planned on it being this long.
END OF SERMON!
BEAGLEMAN.
 

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I am ashamed at the way people use words like tradition to hide there true reasons for not having a couple days set a side for the new hunters. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. You fog it with purist reasonings and make it sound so good you could eat it well BULL. These hunts are like preseason football no big deal but anticipation for opening day will always be an event. So get off the traditional kick PLEEEEASE.... I've lost my patience with you guys. If you don't want anyone hunting your spots on the special youth hunts then buy your own property and be a grinch for the rest of your life. HUMBUG ON YOU....
 

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i think if there is a will there is a way.trappercarl it seems to me that the youth hunt is your goal,if so my friend..... pray to the great spirits and if it is meant to be ,it will happen
 

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Well guy I have been watching this post the past couple of days and biting my tongue, not knowing if I should reply. I will agree with "Coldwater Charters" on this subject. To those of you who are against this "youth hunt", are you forgetting what it is all about?? The sole purpose of the hunt was to involve kids into the sport of hunting. You have to admit that when Firearm deer season opens you have literally thousands of hunters (adults) that should not be out there anyways. That was not intended to insult tru sportsman either. What I meant was I run into "all kinds" in the woods when deer season comes around. It sure is a nice idea to get the kids out there for TWO days without all the hassle. Rememer this is for the kids . We are talking about setting TWO days aside each year to take our kids out and get them involved.
 

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Originally posted by Coldwater Charters:
I am ashamed at the way people use words like tradition to hide there true reasons for not having a couple days set a side for the new hunters. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. You fog it with purist reasonings and make it sound so good you could eat it well BULL. These hunts are like preseason football no big deal but anticipation for opening day will always be an event. So get off the traditional kick PLEEEEASE.... I've lost my patience with you guys. If you don't want anyone hunting your spots on the special youth hunts then buy your own property and be a grinch for the rest of your life. HUMBUG ON YOU....
COLDWATER CHARTERS,
Like you I also am tired of the lame arguments both Pro & Con concerning the Special Youth hunt. As stated in my earlier
post I am against the early hunt. Maybe someone can change my mind with a valid point,not the usual "This season was designed to encourage new hunters to partake in our sport." arguements,no one has shown any evidence that this is true. This isn't a slam at anybody I am truly sincere about this issue and feel as strongly about this issue as you do, I'm just on the other side of the fence.
BEAGLEMAN


 

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Beaglman, the area that I hunt is frequented by beer drinking slobs and poachers. Because of this I do not spend much time at all gun hunting. For this reason I would not have had my son in the woods during gun season.

Eastern Yooper, you wrote... "I'd bet that 100% of the youth participating would have been out there on Nov 15th with Dad, Gramps, Uncle Charlie, etc"... If you had read my reply you would have have realized tha at most 99.95% would have participated anyway? My guess though is that the true percentage is even less than that. <----<<<

 

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JOE ARCHER,
"Beaglman, the area that I hunt is frequented by beer drinking slobs and poachers. Because of this I do not spend much time at all gun
hunting. For this reason I would not have had my son in the woods during gun season."

Unfortunately I'm afraid a lot of us have experienced that type of thing while hunting.
Good Argument- but does that mean he will not hunt other than the Special Season? Then are we really gaining another hunter as the DNR says it wants?
Don't misunderstand me I couldn't agree with you more,but it just reinforces the way I feel.
Why should we be afraid to take our kids or ourselves for that matter hunting because of the slobs,drunks and poachers? Why do we allow this to happen? Why don't we do something about it?
I think one of the biggest problems we have as a group is we don't realize we really can make some changes for the better,Instead of making changes that are easier. We have seen it happen a number of times(too few unfortunately)where we said "thats enough" and acted as a group and got something changed or corrected.
If that is the reason you are not going to hunt with your son then that is really a sad reflection on all of us for allowing this to go on.
I'm hoping one day we might all just get our fill of this crap and decide to do something about it. I really believe we need to start thinking about how powerful a group we can be if we would just start stepping forward.
END OF SERMON 2.


[This message has been edited by BEAGLEMAN (edited 12-20-2000).]
 

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Alot of people seem to be assuming what the youths think. For example, they want the anticipation of the opening of the rifle season or they don't enjoy and miss the colors and the rutting bucks. We need to get the opinion of the youths that made these hunt and find out if it was great or if they would rather wait.

This is a voluntary youth hunt, that means they can wait for that deer camp later. They should not be forced by their parents to do this hunt. But I bet you ask any of the youths and the majority will probably say that it was a great experience.

Maybe for the overly concerned hunters that are afraid of their buck being taken, this youth hunt could be anterless only. That would help the ratio for the rutting season and still put a smile on most youths. Also, it will allow a youth to watch a buck in the field and not have to shoot. They can observe the bucks behavior without worrying about preparing a shot. Maybe take it a step further to a fawnless doe or multiple does with fawns, because the fawns are probably too young to be on their in September . But that would really lead to poaching. Another positive with this idea is that the youth would need to be more patient in waiting for that perfect deer.

 
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