[just ducky]

I've been reading and re-reading many of the posts lately where people are obviously fed up with their deer hunting. My impression is that most of these seem to come from outside of "farm country", where a combination of factors keeps the herd down. But maybe that's just my impression about the farm country areas being in better shape.

My question for you guys that hunt Montcalm County is what is your impression of the deer herd there? Some of you have PM'd me already about it, but I'm really curious here.....am I the only one that thinks things are pretty good in that area, or is our Township where we hunt, or our farm for that matter, that much different than the rest of the county?

 

[PrtyMolusk]

Howdy-

( ....and the rest of the members anxiously awaited posts which might tip them off to hitherto undisclosed whitetail presence..............)

 

[just ducky]

Yeah I thought of that, but it's not really an issue to us that hunt up that way because the majority of the county is private land anyway. Might make some jealous though, but it's not like our situation came about naturally. As I've posted before, a lot of factors went in to making our place great for deer, including the DNR handing out doe permits like candy for the last 20 years. Just curious what others up there think.

 

[rb1]

Just Ducky: I have lived in Montcalm co all of my life. Pine township; In the 50's my sister and counted in the field across from the farm house 600-800 deer some very very large bucks. not bad for the deer being introduced only about 15 years before.
In the 70's when my kids were young we used to go and see the deer herded up in Jan & Feb we counted over 600 in one field a lone; a lot of big bucks; Now I don't even brother to take my grand childern out there they are not there. why brother looking!

I can give you some opinions and observations; why they are not here. (1) Insurance Co's they want to get rid of the whole deer herd. and they have been doing a good job of it. (2) More houses, more acres of land is being taken to build up on. Farmers retiring selling large tracts of land for housing. Their childern don't want to farm so they sell. You can't blame them who wants to keep paying taxes on all that land? (3) Violater; there isn't to many of them around any more they can get all they want during the season. (4) COYOTES;; Since they (introduced) the
coyote into this area our deer herd has dwindled our rabbits are gone I used to like to hunt rabbits; but no rabbits. Don't let your pet outside whatever cat, dog ec, ect or the COYOTES will have it.
I set one morning appoz. 6:am and this COYOTE came walking by just out side my window. walked around the buildings come back by the house. then went across the road. How come just about every where you go there is COYOTES? Why do you think the DNR closes the season a certain time of the year? thats when they are welping. There wasn't any just a few years ago. It makes you kind of wonder doesn't it. So I say this to you hunters don't put that rifle or bow away when the season is over take up COYOTE hunting its fun its relaxing and it takes more skill than you can imange hunting the elusive COYOTE. Just about any farmer will welcome you to on their land as long as it is COYOTES.
that you want to hunt. If you want to get your scouting in for deer! a good time to do it is while you are hunting COYOTES.

There is more deer on private land than Stateland because
the famer grows the feed for them and the hunting pressure isn't as great. RB1

 

[Liver and Onions]

rb1,
Our family farm is in eastern Montcalm Co.
It's pretty amazing what a difference 10-12 miles can make. During the 50's it was a major event to see a deer in our area. My dad told me that the 1st deer spotted on our farm was in '57. I do remember going to the McBride/Stanton area in the mid-60's during the winter to watch about 125 deer feeding in a winter wheat or rye field. That was a special event for us because seeing 3-5 deer on our farm was a major sighting at that time. I have never heard of anyone seeing 600-800 deer in a field in the mid-Michigan area before reading your account.
You say THEY introduced the coyote...do you mean the DNR ? I don't believe that is true. It is my understanding that the coyote has been expanding their range and arrived without any help from anyone. Just like the possum & ****. A hundred yrs. ago they were not common it Montcalm Co. according to several accounts that I have read.
Currently the deer hunting & turkey hunting is very good in our area...never been better. I have few complaints about the DNR. I would support greater antler restrictions if they are state-wide. Until then, I will probably continue to be a traditional hunter for the most part.

L & O

 

[multibeard]

At the time the season was put on coyotes, I was on the board of directors of the Southern Michigan Trappers Assn. At our summer convention I approached John Stuit the dnr's furbearer biologist, for a reason for the coyotes season.

Mr Stuit told me that the reason for the season was to try to curtail the illegal summer killing of bears for their galls. Supposedly there were outlaws that would say they were running coyotes with hounds that were actually running bears and killing them for the gall. Kind of far fetched to me but that is what he told me.

Mr Stuit was so afraid of my bringing up the coyote season at the membership meeting, he would not recognize me during the question/answer segment of his presitation. Finally the Assn. Pres. got me the chance to speak.

Mr. Stuit did not know what to say when I asked him about the dnrs wanting to stop the selling of furbearer glands. He denied this was being concidered. I had been told by a CO that he had received a memo asking his ideas on making these sales illegal.

One of the reason we have trouble keeping decent small game numbers is the protection of so many preaditors.

 

[Thunderhead]

I have no complaints as far as deer numbers go.

 

[mechanical head]

I have access to nearly 300 acres+ near North Co. line Rd. The hunting this past gun season was a poor as it's ever been. Very, Very few deer were spotted, and my two good friends (a father and his son) got skuned for the first time in 20 + years with a gun. My friend told me he had a hard time cutting a track in early December. I hunted one section twice this year with a bow and saw a couple deer both times.

I also have two other areas in S.W Montcalm that I have another couple hundred acres to hunt. Both are within 10 miles from Coral and every time I sat there this year I saw numerous deer. On one property I was seeing 3-4 bucks in the late season chasing does. The other section doesn't seem to be hurting for deer either, my brother and I took a little drive around a while back and we saw tons of deer and deer sign..

Both areas north and south are private and farm country..

 

[rb1]

Liver & Onions; I didn't say who; but I seen the videos. RB1

 

[rb1]

L&O; My sister that was counting them is still alive. She would tell you the same thing. It is good to hear some body from back in the 50's. about the same thing that I remember. RB1

 

[Barney]

I think the deer population is doing o.k. in my area. I saw several bucks and does this season. I did not see any huge bucks but saw several small ones. I had shots at bucks and does and passed. Over all the hunting this fall was good.

 

[weatherby]

After huntin 4 townships in montcalm county for 22 years My opinion is this. We still have a fair number of deer, but they are in pockets. We have more hunters and most everypiece of property has someone huntin it so there is a lot of pressure. There is big bucks around , but they are a different breed . I have been seein less deer everyyear since the late 80's , but more bucks. The hunters are now huntin harder from oct 1 to dec 31st around me so the deer do get spooky and go nocturnal, but they are still there. Every time i go shinin i see em

 

[Jeff Sturgis]

I don't know if it applies where you guys are, but even in an area with high deer densities, you can have areas that have extremely low populations of deer. This happened all the time in the thumb when I hunted there. For example, you would have a large farm with a big, thick woods where many deer would escape to in firearm season and later. That particular farm would have many doe permits and would shoot many, many deer. The next year, there could be several areas around that just didn't seem to have many deer, and the entire thing would take place again.

Most landowners seem to use their antlerless permits wisely, but it only seems to take one large property, with a few hunters and lots of permits, to effect the population for an entire area.

600 deer in a field?!?!

I've seen 125 in 1 field in the thumb, and 50 in the adjoining, for a total of 175, but 600....wow!

 

[rb1]

Just Ducky: I don't where you get it is mostly private land in Montcalm Co. There is over 3,700 acres in Pine Township alone. then there is the Edmore State Game area; then the Stanton State game area. These other ones I don't know the acreage to them but I but with good plot map I could figure it out But I know it is quite a bit of land.
The State tells us what they are going to pay in taxes and then we have to equalize it on our taxes. The property owner within each township helps pay for that State land every body uses. Then when us locals want to go musrooming or or enjoying the state land during the summer we can't. they have gates on them and they are locked. but we pay for it why can't we use it? RB1

 

[boehr]

rb1...I don't understand, why can't you use the state land? You can't walk around the gate?

I also don't understand about the tax statement. The state does pay the taxes on the land to the local units of government...the township.

Coyotes....introduced? Deer....introduced? huh

 

[rb1]

Boehr sure I can walk but that isn't the problem. I suppose that the people that are handicapped can walk around that gate too. RB1

 

[mechanical head]

I would just as soon see gates on all the State land property. I know that won't happen but it sure would cut down on the litter, and the butcherd up two tracks. All the state land I know is plenty navatiable just from the main roads. But then agian it doesn't bother me to walk a mile, just to scout a hunting or shroom picking area..

 

[multibeard]

I like it when you young guys that are in good health think that everyone has the physical abilities you have. I am 60 years old and as the only doctor I could get any answer out of about the pain and weakness I was having. He told me that he could tell the people that worked for a living. He flat out told me my body was worn out. this was after he got done doing an EMG on me.

MH -----20 years ago I too would have not cared if all state lands were gated to keep people out. I agree about the litter and damage on these lands. What will you say when you are unable to walk in to access these lands.

Boehr------I can't walk far enough to hunt these closed of areas. So there for I am being shut out of public land that should be mine to hunt.

The more we allow access to land to be closed off the more the older generation loses the ability to enjoy these lands.

 

[boehr]

I can understand mutibeards dilemma but rb1, are you physically challenged.

All state lands don't have gates on them. For the most part, it is the state game areas with gates and even those are state game areas where there have been problems with vehicles, be it 4x4 mudders or ORV's tearing up the area, including mushroom picking areas.

As to the state game areas, the are a few, granted very few, that are handicapped accessible, even with a wheel chair. One comes to mind, the Sanilac State Game Area where a black top path was put in for wheelchairs. There are grants and I would also suspect organizations that would help those that use a game area to put in some type of handicapped accessible area with many wildlife biologists supporting those measures under certain conditions and controls. If you are wanting to be able to drive a car/truck back there, that likely isn't going to happen.

As to the gates and keeping vehicles out, especially for state game areas where much of the lands for state game areas was purchased with Pitman Robertson Funds one of the restictions when those funds are used is "no motorized vehicles of any type".

Bottom line is that it is unfortuante that we can't have public lands that meet everyone's needs but that is impossible because man ( & felmales) won't allow it to happen. That's just how the human race is.

 

[fairfax1]

I never miss an opening to tell one.....

rb1's 800 ...I gotta say...is pretty darn impressive. holymoly!

Best I can do (and this goes back to the early to mid-70's) was 500 to 600 deer in two big adjoining fields of picked corn (not shelled). The farmer of that property back then was an old guy with old equipment and his picker knocked a lot of corn down without getting the ear off. His fields were always a magnet for deer in the winter. Alas, he sold out to a younger guy who brought in a new John Deere ....and you know the rest of the story.

But I can..honesttogod...say that my wife-to-be and my Pop counted nearly 600 one late February afternoon in two fields that, side by side, contained probably 60 to 80 acres.

(by the way, the late winter herds are still out there.....last Monday night I counted 126 in a 25 acre field of shelled corn...and less than a mile away were another 40-50, also in a harvested corn field)...and this was just outside of Lansing, almost within sight of the Interstate.