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Have you tried QDM??

  • Have tried QDM and it worked.

    Votes: 21 58.3%
  • Have tried QDM and it didn't worked.

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Haven't tried but would like to.

    Votes: 4 11.1%
  • Never have and never will try.

    Votes: 7 19.4%
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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious who has practiced QDM and who it has worked for. In my experience it has worked for everyone that has tried it, but some of you still seem to not like the idea.
Our farm has practiced QDM for about five or six years now and bigger more mature bucks are being taken each year. We used to see 30-50 deer each time out with maybe a spike or two. Now with the taking of does and only the bigger more mature bucks we will see 5-20 deer each time out but usually with some bucks included. Now Each year mature bucks are taken in the area. This year a 9pt. and two 8pts were taken with others seen and not shot. Last year a 10 pt. and an 8 pt were taken. With two other nice bucks getting past my uncle. Two years ago a monster 11 point was taken by the neighbor and an 8 pt was taken by my dad. My theory is, if it is given a fair chance then it will work.
 

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"Contrary to what some might think, QDM is not rocket science. The beauty of the concept is that it`s not complicated, and it can work wherever whitetails are found, if it`s given a fair chance."

Charles Alsheimer
 

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It's worked well at my camp and other places where I've hunted in Michigan.

I practice it by:

Not shooting young bucks.

Trying to harvest as many does as I have tags for.

Improving the habitat to increase the health and carrying capactity of my land.

Trying to educate mysef and some of the surrounding neighbors to the benefits of harvesting does and letting the young bucks walk. This is the one part I don't have full control over so I don't let it bother me too much. They have every right to do as they please.

I've found that it's much easier to show someone QDM works than tell them what to do on the land that they own and pay taxes on.

BTW my gallery has a few examples of the deer my hunting partners and myself have taken in the last 10 years or so. QDM does not happen overnight and you will have set backs but don't let it discourage you. I've made my mistakes but hopefully learned from them.

Remember two things, that deer hunting is supposed to be fun and is not a competition with anybody other than you and the deer. If you want to sell something make them want to buy it.
 

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Tom

You already know the answer to that.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as it agrees with mine. Isn't that the American way? LOL
 

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Originally posted by Tom Morang
So if VOLUNTARY QDM works so well, why is there such a big push to make it MANDATORY?



....tm;)
Well, as ya know, we've always had some sort of mandatory antler restriction. First antlered buck must have 3" spikes.

Your question is a fair one, Tom. One thing about increasing the antler restriction threshold, say, to 3 or 4 pts to a side, is to diffuse the familiar "if I don't shoot him, the guy next door will" business.

Another matter, probably less so than the first, is that there are times when voluntary will not work so good. I hesitate to personalize this, but I'll use my farm as an example. And I'm sure my property is not unique in this regard. It's been a number of years since we've taken a 1.5 year old buck on my 240A. As I've mentioned here before, we show the does no mercy, and have invested an awful lot in habitat improvements. Has my hunting improved? Realistically, no, though I would hasten to add that I continue to enjoy hunting deer on my land immensely. But I haven't seen a 3.5 year old or older buck while hunting on my property since 2000. The doe:buck ratio remains poor, and my logs reveal that antlerless:antlered sightings have been between 25 and 30 to 1 over the last few seasons. The problem is the harvest practices of those that hunt the parcels around me (note I did not say "neighbors").

Essentially, none of my neighbors hunt. I wish they did. There are 9 different landowners on my perimeter, their parcels range between 60 and hundreds of acres in size. They are either owned by farmers, widows, or absentees. From one season to the next, the cast of surrounding hunters changes substantially. Some of the landowners are very generous with granting permission to hunt, some just don't care what's going on. Of these parcels, on only two can I generally count on the same guys being back each year. But the rest are close to what I might call "transient hunters". Very difficult to cultivate cooperation amongst them.

The mortality on yearling bucks in my neighborhood is high, my guess is higher than average, and not enough does get taken. Some kind of enhanced antler-point threshold (what some may refer to as "mandatory" antler restrictions) may well be the only practical measure to get some age structure to our local herd.

My determination to continue to practice QDM is stronger than ever, and hopefully our long-term plan of increasing the amount of thick sanctuary cover on my place will result in an occasional young buck surviving to become a mature animal. I'd sure get a kick out of seeing one!:D
 

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I have a buddy who hunts in a big camp in NE PA . We had a long talk re AR's over the holidays. The word from PA is "ITS WORKING". Interestingly, most of the guys in their camp were strictly old school and hated the idea at first. But now they are some of the biggest AR boosters.

We are very fortunate to have some real good deer camp neighbors who can see beyond the end of their noses. So QDM is working for my camp as well as for the guys across the road and down the road. In fact, QDM is working everywhere its been given a fair and honest trial.

Where is our Dr. Gary Alt??

Natty B.


:rolleyes:
 

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We've tried voluntary at our club since 1998. It gets a D-. Our private neighbors and surrounding public land hunters want nothing to do with the program. They prefer "brown it's down"- bitch about no decent deer. Now all we have is far fewer deer and even fewer bucks, of any size. Let along bigger bucks that were supposed to be the result. Now 30% of our bucks are dead at 6 months, since a cumlitive(sp) total of 120 antlerless permits have been sold per sq. mile since 1998, and the other 69% are dead at 18 months because nearly every remaining buck gets shot. Mandatory antler regs are the only option in many area's of the state. And for that, all regulations, be it baiting or otherwise need to be uniform and statewide. Vietnam should have taught us the lesson of doing something peacemeal, instead of having a grand plan. Feeling our way through a plan never works. I'm for mandatory regs. Or as we used to say, simply "having regulations". Not just letting hunters decide management and to stop shooting only when there's nothing left in some area's. We did this well with the passanger pigeon. Hell, read these boards. Even half the guys on M-S are in the dark. Should we leave our sport to many that are unfortunately ignorant of the facts?
For those doing the math, Newaygo county has 842 sq. miles. Since 1998, around 100,000 antlerless permits have been issued. That's 118 permits per sq. mile. What do you think the odds are of having many 4-6 year old deer around with 120 kill permits per mile, without even adding the regular buck permits? Still think there's 50 per sq. mile? Think there's 20? If we have 1.8 million, which is over 40 deer per mile, then us hunters sure can't shoot straight with 100 plus permits per mile over 6 years.
 

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Tom,

You, like so many other people get confused by what QDM stands for! It is not TDM!!! That would be (Trophy Deer Management). . . hope this clears things up for you and BC bucks are rare as you know.

FYI. . . Take a look at the Real Tree Monster Bucks videos, I would consider those trophy bucks, but guess what. . . it took them until this year's video to get one that is over 170 net BC, the minimum for typicals.
 

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Anything I can do to help;)

Whenever I mention QDM, I usually get something like. "Damn trophy hunters". . . which is far from the truth.

Heck, five years ago, that was my opinion. Things have changed for the better in our area.
 

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Yeah, you don't have to tell me about the survey from last year. I have talked to about 20 guys that voted NO from last year and most(16) would change their vote this year. Most of the people that voted NO have property near the border lines. . . I know that you are just taking the survey as is since that is the only information you have to go on, but if they would have shown the comments page it would give you a better understanding of why some people voted NO. Also, the don't care and no opinion count as NO votes.

Comments of the 16 guys that voted No that would change is that they would like to see is Statewide to better regulate it. . . or they have property on the border.

Thanks for finding that link. . .too bad they didn't post the comments for everyone to see.

FYI, it still might pass and stay QDM;) ;)
 

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omega58,
So tell me again what the goal of QDM truly is. Yeah, I can read their website, but I've been there and done that before. Like I said before, I really do want to learn. Is it strictly the health of the herd? Some of the postings that quote John Ozoga seem circular in their thinking. What confuses me is what some of the strong QDM supporters on this page use for arguments. Everyone says that they aren't in it for big bucks or "trophies", but many only want to shoot big bucks or "trophies"? If the goal is a healthy herd, with a good buck to doe ratio, and a good mix of age classes among all, then why let ALL young bucks walk? Some of you have already pointed out the fact that there are more younger bucks to begin with because older bucks have a higher mortality rate in a "normal" herd. So if there are 100 bucks in an area, and let's say that 20 (20%) are 8 points and up, why only target that 20? It seems like you would want to protect some of the young ones for future bucks. If as someone said we are currently taking 80% of the available bucks, then we're already taking 80 of those 100 bucks, and if we target ONLY the larger bucks, then aren't we taking way too many of the older, breeder bucks?

Bottom line....what truly makes up a "healthy" herd? 50/50 buck to doe? 30/70% How about among only bucks? 50/50 over and under 1 1/2 years old? And further more, how can a "healthy" deer in southern lower Michigan be compared to a "healthy" deer in the central UP? These are dratically different animals, with different food and habitat, and different natural predators, weather, and stress. If we do move into expanded QDM regulations, I can't see having blanket statewide regulations.
 

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There is no way blanket situations would work, because a 4 on one side rule would not work anywhere other than lower LP. Three on one side would work pretty much everywhere. I think QDM is simple and people can form their own opinions in what to shoot. If they want to take a 1 1/2 old five point or wait for a 2 1/2 or older deer that is up to them.

Our property (320 acres), we took 3 eight points, one 3 1/2 and two 2 1/2 year olds. We also took 14 does and will not even put a dent in the population. We should have put down more than double that! I saw some nice bucks, both 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 year olds that will be nice bucks next year and the year after.

On another piece of land we own (200 acres) about 5 miles away, we took 8 does, a 1 1/2 year old 5, 6, and 8 point, and a 2 1/2 year old 8 point with about a 18 inch spread.


Two different chunks of land, two different philosophy's of QDM hunters. Both work!! I wouldn't call either places trophy hunting places, biggest buck taken scores around 120. I like hunting at both spots and love putting in the work on the tractor with food plots and being in the woods anytime I can get out of the city.
 

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Well that certainly sounds like a different management style than most promote on this site. What you do sounds very similar to what we do on our 460 acres, and it works for us. We had a vote for QDM in Montcalm Co. a year or so back that was for 4 or more on a side, and it got trounced. I was vehemently opposed to it because I see no need in our area. As you said, if someone wants to take a 1 1/2 year old 5 point, or wait for an older buck, I have no problem in our particular area. Although I think a proposal for "no spikes" or "fork horns or larger" may have passed. It's obvious by some of the comments on this site that many are frustrated, and I feel for them. But mandatory STATEWIDE AR's are not the answer. JMHO.
 

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Originally posted by Tom Morang
So if VOLUNTARY QDM works so well, why is there such a big push to make it MANDATORY?



....tm;)

Oh C'mon Tom.......I understand your concern with antler restrictions, but I promise we'll keep them at 5 points per side or less.........That way you won't have to take the other mitten off :eek: :D ;)

Neal
 
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