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Just read a article in the new PF mag and the writer stated he likes his pointers to creep up on birds that are running, until they lock in on the bird. Then he gives the whoa command. This is done instead of having to walk up and release the dog to track the running bird every time he scents a bird. Does any one else allow their dog to do this?
 

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My male does it naturally. It is hard to deal with sometimes because every once in a while he gets himself in trouble and busts the bird. I have been working on correcting that but it is nice sometimes when I am feeling lazy and he is successful at it. I consider it different than a creep but that is a personal definition. He isn't creeping in on a bird that he has already pinned, he is stealthily relocating on a moving bird. In either case, I am trying to increase our teamwork. He will relocate on command so that is a big bonus, I would just like to see him not relocate on his own. But, to each his own.
 

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I allow my dogs to relocate and don't do much talking to them. They will move if the bird has moved.
 

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Interesting, I had just the same question the other day after my dogs "false pointed" or lost a few birds. That didn't happen a whole lot last year and each dog did it 3-4 times on Sunday (granted, scenting conditions were terrible!). We have been drilling "whoa" though, so I wondered if that had something to do with it. I'd be interested in the opinions of serious hunters and trialers on this one.

KW
 

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I think it's all about knowing your dog. I never "whoa" him when approaching because he knows how to work a grouse. If he holds till I get there, I'll whoa him. If he's got a hot scent, he'll wait for me to get there before he moves on it.
 

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I just like the guy's comment in the article...

"Thing is, I keep reading about hunters whose dogs, they insist, hold point on pheasants and other running game birds until they can saunter up, politely tap the dog on the head and send it on. My question is this, how can I find out where those guys hunt?"

Amen to that.
 

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I never say a word to my dog while hunting. In a hunting stiuation I can never figure out why you would whoa a dog that is already pointing. The creeping or slowly relocating happens a lot with pheasants and very little with grouse and woodcock.
 

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"Creeping" and re-positioning are two different things. A dog that creeps on a stationary bird in the grouse woods when you are out of sight will bump or move the bird and you'll never see (or maybe even hear) the flush.

I spoke with a very well respected grouse hunter the other day (400-500 flushes/year) who never allows his dogs to re-located on their own. If a flush attempt is unproductive, he signals his dogs to move on afterward.
 

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My dogs move on naturally, and I wouldn't have it any other way. They are working the bird as best they can.

Grouse run, period.
 

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Depends on the the dog, age, experience, etc. If you want a dog that pins running birds he has to be able to relocate on his own. Some dogs get it, most dont. Unless a dog hunts under their boots, anyone that tells you their dog doesn't bump birds is either lying, aren't around many birds, or has no idea whats going on. ;) The less you hack a dog around birds the better off the dog will be.
 

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I have one setter that doesn't creep and one that does creep.
I rarely run them together when hunting, but I will say some days the dog that creeps out performs the rock solid one when the birds are wanting to run. Other days, other birds, things are different. Don't like the creeping on quail or woodcock, but I love it for running pheasant and running grouse. Of course this is only my two cents.

Ronnie
 

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Good to hear from ya Ronnie.

Self relocation is a sin to many tru blu grousers just as having a dog flush the bird is but for my money I don't mind a dog that self relocates as long as they aren't ripping birds. I do hate a dog that wants to walk in with you though, that's bad manners. I've unloaded the gun and had a come to jesus talk with my dogs about this breach in manners.
 

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i read the article. amazing what gets published in that magazine. if you want or allow your dog to creep, i suggest a spaniel or other flushing dog as that's what you will soon have.

find the bird, i think we spent some time on that subject a bit over a year ago.<G>

i dont hunt pheasants any more, but i recall my dog pointing and being released six times on one of the last ones i did hunt. ideally though, the dog gets the bird pointed and held. a friend who had a ru natl champion grouse dog, tells about finding her on point with the bird spread eagled on the ground with it's wings outstretched. really good dogs are fast, hit the birds hard and intimidate them into holding. slow dogs that work with their nose to the ground encourage birds, whether grouse or pheasant to run or walk off.
 

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find the bird, i think we spent some time on that subject a bit over a year ago.<G>.
No disrespect Mr. Dogwhistle:D I was referring to a different well respected grouse guy whom we both know and who's dogs are running tomorrow in the local RGS chapter's trial as is Major (Major tells me that he thinks he can win:evil:).
 

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i wasnt particuarly referring to that. i was referrring to the time put in on your dog a year ago last spring or so.
I Gotchya: and the little bugger is 100% better bird handler because of it!
 

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natural creeping is a result of genetic fault... and poor training..

why would you want your dog to creep on a bird that he doesnt have a good scent on but the bird is there. i suppose if you dont mind your dog bumping birds its not a big deal.
 

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mike, he's doing 100% better, i get a lot of pleasure out of seeing it. and we all learn from our mistakes, i certainly have made my share. if i say "dont do that" it's probably the voice of experience. you have a nice pup coming up that should be a pleasure to train.

a lot of this is just learning what not to do. this creeping problem is often caused by guys that havent learned how to train and take their dogs hunting and hope for the best. or put the dogs in a position where they will do the wrong thing- "setting them up to fail".

we all have to break a lot of eggs before we can make an omelot. but the better dog trainers learn from their mistakes and get better over time.

Major doesnt have the ideal personality of that HiFive pup, but he's a fine dog and they dont look any better on point. you can tell anyone that will listen that i said so.
 
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