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Found this one while grinding up some meat. Don't know what caliber maybe 25-06 ,looks like a fail safe bullet. What ever it is I'd say it's a piss poor design and choice for deer.
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Only bullet I have ever recovered came from a boar I shot in Florida.It was a 300 gr hollow point from my 45-70.It retained over 60% percent of it's mass and expanded to almost double in diameter.
 

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Here is a 250g Hornady retrieved from a doe shot in the ribs at 75 yards. 150g (60 percent) weight retention. The deer did not go far, but it took several minutes to die, as it was visible in the corn stubble, lifting her head.

For those who complain about Hornady’s not opening, I would suggest that the are opening, and the mushroom is disappearing, with the copper jacket completely folding back. This bullet looks like little more than a round ball.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
For those who complain about Hornady’s not opening, I would suggest that the are opening, and the mushroom is disappearing, with the copper jacket completely folding back. This bullet looks like little more than a round ball.
I think with the hornadys (which are great killers) if you hit a bone, shoulder etc they can sort of grenade a little, not quite like the exploding varmint rounds from a .204 but some.

That causes some good collateral damage and probably helps. And you know 100 percent of the energy went into the deer, none lost from a passthrough into the ground. But maybe more meat damage, and less likely to have great blood trail.
 

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I agree with this. The 450 could have saami spec'd this round for 55k psi, but didn't - certain there's a good reason. The AR15 can and does handle that amount of pressure - look at the spec for the 350 legend.
Bear Creek (nice guys- met them at the show yesterday) is loading the bullets long, so they don't fit in an AR mag. It's only a matter of time before someone single loads this into an AR.
If people want a high pressure 45 Cal, get the 45 raptor. Designed for 62K psi.
The reason is bolt thrust 5.56 the rim is .378" rated at 62,366 psi 223 Remington 55,000 psi....450 Bushmaster has a .473" rim rated at 38,500 psi....there's less metal left on the lugs locking the bolt 450 BM....there has been some problems with cracked or sheared lugs with the 6.8 SPC with a .422" rim because of its 58,700 psi maximum pressure....I'am sure there was a little "hot rodding" involved...

In a 450 BM in a bolt rifle 62,000 psi loads depending on the bullet you might gain 100-150 fps recoil will go from a 20 ga. push to a 12 ga single shot with a 3 1/2" mag load....

A partner of mine was commissioned to develop "Proof Loads" for a custom bolt action rifle maker they are 72,000 psi loads....at 62,000 psi primers were flat and slight cratering....at 72,000 psi bolt was hard to lift....we even pushed a couple to 80,000 psi a rubber mallet needed to be used to get the bolt open the cases had a slight ring above the base the start of case heads separation....
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
In an AR. Bolt actions can be loaded higher
I know bolts can be loading higher but that was based on the assumption the brass is rated at 62,000 not 38,000 psi.

He said "450 Bushmaster has a .473" rim rated at 38,500 psi" to me that meant the rim of the brass was rated at 38,000 psi.
Or does the rim rating change depending on the type of bolt? Meaning its not really a brass only rating but a Brass+what ever is holding it.

Just a bit confusing on what they are talking about.
 

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I have recovered 2 Barnes TSX 250 gr from my .45/70 shots. Data said about 2,200 fps. The first was a zebra at 105-110 yards angling towards me. Went in just inside the right shoulder and was found in the left hindquarter. It mushroomed perfectly to just under 7/8". It weighed 250.2 grains, perfectly clean. It went less than 100 yards. Second was a whitetail at about 15 yards from a tree stand about 10-12 feet up. It was facing me. The bullet entered the right shoulder, hitting the ball, breaking it into 5 pieces. It ricocheted directly across to the left shoulder, hitting that ball, breaking it into 3 pieces. It then turned 90 degrees and traveled up the neck, stopping a couple inches short of the jaw. It weighed 22o grains, was a near perfect mushroom and lost one petal. (We processed it ourselves and saw everything described.) It went about 15 feet. (If I can figure out how to post pics I'll put those two up.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I have recovered 2 Barnes TSX 250 gr from my .45/70 shots. Data said about 2,200 fps. The first was a zebra at 105-110 yards angling towards me. Went in just inside the right shoulder and was found in the left hindquarter. It mushroomed perfectly to just under 7/8". It weighed 250.2 grains, perfectly clean. It went less than 100 yards. Second was a whitetail at about 15 yards from a tree stand about 10-12 feet up. It was facing me. The bullet entered the right shoulder, hitting the ball, breaking it into 5 pieces. It ricocheted directly across to the left shoulder, hitting that ball, breaking it into 3 pieces. It then turned 90 degrees and traveled up the neck, stopping a couple inches short of the jaw. It weighed 22o grains, was a near perfect mushroom and lost one petal. (We processed it ourselves and saw everything described.) It went about 15 feet. (If I can figure out how to post pics I'll put those two up.)
Ill show you the easiest way to do pics. Check your private messages for instructions.
 

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Are you saying the actual brass rim of 450 BM is rated at 38,500? Meaning independant of gun type (single shot, bolt, AR) the limiting factor is the brass itself?
The pressures I stated is for the SAMMI specification of the cartridge not the brass itself....
Basically a AR-15 as rims get larger you must lower the pressure because the size of the locking lugs...
Even tho a 308 has the same size rim as a 450 BM you cannot put a 308 barrel on a AR-15 and shoot factory ammo at 62,000 psi because the pressure would be too much....if you loaded it to 38,500 psi the same as a 450 BM it would be OK...a AR-10 can handle 308's 62,000 psi with its larger bolt and locking lugs....

Sorry to get off track....

Let's see some more bullets......lol
 

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The reason is bolt thrust 5.56 the rim is .378" rated at 62,366 psi 223 Remington 55,000 psi....450 Bushmaster has a .473" rim rated at 38,500 psi....there's less metal left on the lugs locking the bolt 450 BM....there has been some problems with cracked or sheared lugs with the 6.8 SPC with a .422" rim because of its 58,700 psi maximum pressure....I'am sure there was a little "hot rodding" involved...

In a 450 BM in a bolt rifle 62,000 psi loads depending on the bullet you might gain 100-150 fps recoil will go from a 20 ga. push to a 12 ga single shot with a 3 1/2" mag load....

A partner of mine was commissioned to develop "Proof Loads" for a custom bolt action rifle maker they are 72,000 psi loads....at 62,000 psi primers were flat and slight cratering....at 72,000 psi bolt was hard to lift....we even pushed a couple to 80,000 psi a rubber mallet needed to be used to get the bolt open the cases had a slight ring above the base the start of case heads separation....
We speak the same language. I'm an advanced reloader and fully understand the physics of BF diameter and lug abatement pressure. They should've done 2 saami specs.

My raptor shoots the 250 bonded shockwave @2600 fps with still a little room to go. Given the case capacity of the BM and the raptor are very similar, the additional pressure yields 300-400 fps more velocity.

To certain degree, most of this is an academic conversation. Does an additional 100-500 fps make a real difference in terminal ballistics at the distances we shoot?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
To certain degree, most of this is an academic conversation. Does an additional 100-500 fps make a real difference in terminal ballistics at the distances we shoot?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Probably does not for most the shots taken.

But I sort of like knowing I could take that 300 yard shot and have over 1,000 FPE and less wind drift and bullet drop. The combination of higher BC (.265) + 250 fps adds like 50-100 more usable yards over factory.

I can just use the over the counter [email protected] and get it done pretty well though.
 

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My first recovery. Dec 2020, frt shoulder quartering to, found bulge under fur opposite hip. She dropped, made a few snow angels. 105 yds. Bear Creek .450 240 gr HV.
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Here’s a 195 grain Barnes from my 45 cal Knight M-L. The chrony speed averages 2218 with my B209 charge, 115 grain area by volume.

It was about a 65 yard shot into the lung area, angling forward. The deer went less than 20 yards, stone dead. The bullet was in the neck, evident when prepared for European mount.

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