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Discussion Starter #61
For the sake of argument, let's rephrase the discussion... instead of "taxpayers" and "government", let's reference this forum instead:

Would you do the same if there was a rumor pending that said if you borrow $60,000 today, there's a chance that instead of paying your own debt, there's a chance that all of us forum members might have to split it up and pay it for you, whether they want to or not. Would you still do it?

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My answer would be dependent on what they are taking away to pay for this. The people in this forum have always bern paying for college and most of america has been fine with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Paying off existing loans will do absolutely nothing to fix the institutional issues. If anything, knowing the government will bail the students out, will only encourage the grossly inefficient universities to waste even more and then ask for more.... not the opposite.



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Well I would say it depends on how they negotiate this....if it even happens.

As it stands today the govt subsidizes an enormous amount of college on a yealry basis. Every college bases their yearly budget on FASFA numbers and how much govt money will come in. This is why colleges pulled ahead the fasfa deadline a couple yrs back.

If they cut the chord and take away that lifeline that is allowing colleges to continually raise tuitions it will help the problem. Colleges will be forced to change their business practices.

I wouldnt have an issue with reforming the system and directing that money towards paying off debt vs paying more and more aid every year.
 

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College keeps getting more and more expensive with more people attending it who can't afford it. The reason IMHO is the "free money". Sure you have to pay it back, but heck we'll spread it out over your whole life and minimal interest. Nevermind that you chose a career which will pay just above minimum wage.

The result is that the demand for college keeps rising which increases the price. Colleges are happy to take this money and build bigger and fancier buildings adding nothing to the actual education that you may get.

Now bring in even more money with "free" college schemes or paying off students debts and I think you can see where this is going.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
Anyone watch the movie the big short on netflix? It is about the housing bubble and how banks screwed up and gave away too much money to undeserving people and the issue compounded spiraling out of control. I thought it was an interesting detailed explanation of what happened nack then.

I am not sure how people arent looking at that and wondering when this issue with student loan debt is going to be worse. Banks gave people who could never afford houses enormous amounts of money for a decade. It caused a chain reaction and the economy fell apart. We gave the banks 700 billion of tax payer dollars to rectify that issue so the economy wouldnt collapse.

Banks have been giving people who cannot affford student loans tens of thousands or even 100k in lending with no credit. The colleges push for it and they are the crooked mortgage broker here. The bill is 1.6 trillion and growing....far more than the mortgage crisis. The banking indistry looks at this as 0 risk just like they did with mortgages bonds. We sit here and complain about the undeserving idiots who dont live within their means etc.. what about the institutions like UM or MSU that have 3-4 billion in their endowment and they are creating the issue? In 08 we bailed out the banks and there was very little complaining. They are talking about bailing out the people here not the institutions and we gripe about injustice. Wouldnt it be better to help the people?

I know this all seems really wrong and it goes against my principles. The issue is I dont see how this doesnt end badly for everyone.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
College keeps getting more and more expensive with more people attending it who can't afford it. The reason IMHO is the "free money". Sure you have to pay it back, but heck we'll spread it out over your whole life and minimal interest. Nevermind that you chose a career which will pay just above minimum wage.

The result is that the demand for college keeps rising which increases the price. Colleges are happy to take this money and build bigger and fancier buildings adding nothing to the actual education that you may get.

Now bring in even more money with "free" college schemes or paying off students debts and I think you can see where this is going.
I am thinking we redirect the free money to debt payoff and stop the madness. I know its wishful thinking.
 

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holy crap SS and I agree 100% on something lol :D
I see a few new technicians each year though a scholarship program. The students work with us on the days they aren't in the classroom. Its not "skilled trades" per se but mechanics and instrumentation guys. We can't operate without them to maintain our equipment and the scholarship program is a huge win for both students and employer.
 

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I am thinking we redirect the free money to debt payoff and stop the madness. I know its wishful thinking.
A much better option is to stop the free money and have people pay off the debt they incurred. There is no down side to that. If you need money, sign your name and pay it off, it’s a very simple concept.

If parents want their kids to succeed and feel higher education is the way to go they have options. Co-sign their loan, get a second job, sell their toys or second homes, delay their retirement or take out a reverse mortgage. In the end many parents gift their estate to their kids so those loans can be paid off that way too. I know personal responsibility is a thing of the past but it’s wishful thinking on my part.
 

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Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
A much better option is to stop the free money and have people pay off the debt they incurred. There is no down side to that. If you need money, sign your name and pay it off, it’s a very simple concept.

If parents want their kids to succeed and feel higher education is the way to go they have options. Co-sign their loan, get a second job, sell their toys or second homes, delay their retirement or take out a reverse mortgage. In the end many parents gift their estate to their kids so those loans can be paid off that way too. I know personal responsibility is a thing of the past but it’s wishful thinking on my part.
Well expecting all the undeserving people who were led into this situation to pay off their debts is extremely unlikely. It didnt work back when our govt tried to allow every person to own a home. It isn't going to work now that they are trying to let every person attend college. It took a little over a decade for the housing bubble to explode. The student loan chrisis is taking longer to blow up but it has ballooned up to over twice the cost. It cannot go on forever and burrying our heads in the sand and expecting them to pay can only lead to another major recession. It sucks but i have a hard time disagreeing with an attempt to fix it.

Today people over age 50 owe 300 billion. People younger than 50 owe 1.3 trillion. The vast majority are in the 35-49 age bracket and 800k of the borrowers are from people who took out loans to pay for a kids loan they didnt borrow for their own education. As these people head towards retirement age their debt grows.
 

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Obviously the educational system failed for some. Retirement age will suck for them when their SS payments, 401ks are seized to pay off their loans they incurred 50 years prior. It a good thing our country has a lot of bridges for those dumb a$$es to live under in their retirement years.
 

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Anyone watch the movie the big short on netflix? It is about the housing bubble and how banks screwed up and gave away too much money to undeserving people and the issue compounded spiraling out of control. I thought it was an interesting detailed explanation of what happened nack then.

I am not sure how people arent looking at that and wondering when this issue with student loan debt is going to be worse. Banks gave people who could never afford houses enormous amounts of money for a decade. It caused a chain reaction and the economy fell apart. We gave the banks 700 billion of tax payer dollars to rectify that issue so the economy wouldnt collapse.

Banks have been giving people who cannot affford student loans tens of thousands or even 100k in lending with no credit. The colleges push for it and they are the crooked mortgage broker here. The bill is 1.6 trillion and growing....far more than the mortgage crisis. The banking indistry looks at this as 0 risk just like they did with mortgages bonds. We sit here and complain about the undeserving idiots who dont live within their means etc.. what about the institutions like UM or MSU that have 3-4 billion in their endowment and they are creating the issue? In 08 we bailed out the banks and there was very little complaining. They are talking about bailing out the people here not the institutions and we gripe about injustice. Wouldnt it be better to help the people?

I know this all seems really wrong and it goes against my principles. The issue is I dont see how this doesnt end badly for everyone.
Yes, great movie.
 

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Discussion Starter #75 (Edited)
How do you have a home and new trucks but also tens of thousands in student loans? Oh right. Priorities. o_O
Alot of the people with that debt dont have those nice things. Many of them could never afford a new truck because their credit was too bad. Yet the universities and banking institutions guided them into massive loans for their children to go to college. They are dishing out tens of thousands to people who arent capable of paying and that is the crux of the issue. We can blame thos people for being irresponsible all we want. Doesnt change that they shouldnt have gotten the money to begin with.
Obviously the educational system failed for some. Retirement age will suck for them when their SS payments, 401ks are seized to pay off their loans they incurred 50 years prior. It a good thing our country has a lot of bridges for those dumb a$$es to live under in their retirement years.
I am not understanding why you think the people with these loans ever had an education. It isnt the college students themselves that owns the majority of the debt. The gov't doesnt allow the student to take on much debt. There are limits protecting students. There are no govt limits protecting clueless adults who cant afford these loans for kids. The system is set up this way so banks and universities can get rich. The house of cards eventually has to fall. The tax payer will hold the bill once again the way it happened in 08. So the question is do we fix the issue for the people or do we wait for a recession and bail out the banks that did this like we did before?

What do you think happens in 20 years when the 300 billion owed by the 50-60 yr old crowd today becomes 500 billion with interest and they begin passing away penniless? The debt is never paid.
 

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I have always said that anything given is less valuable than something earned. The same would happen with an undergraduate degree. I agree something needs to be done to get the prices down a bit but making it so everyone can get that bachelors degree will make that degree less valuable and degrade it downward toward a high school diploma.

Steve I certainly don’t understand your comment about someone getting screwed by not having kids. Those kids cost way more money over the course of their lives to the parents than any government tax credits could even begin to cover. He certainly in regards to money is way way ahead.


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Discussion Starter #77
I have always said that anything given is less valuable than something earned. The same would happen with an undergraduate degree. I agree something needs to be done to get the prices down a bit but making it so everyone can get that bachelors degree will make that degree less valuable and degrade it downward toward a high school diploma.

Steve I certainly don’t understand your comment about someone getting screwed by not having kids. Those kids cost way more money over the course of their lives to the parents than any government tax credits could even begin to cover. He certainly in regards to money is way way ahead.


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True however he is still paying alot of money for services given to those with children. Not having kids for many is a choice like not buying an extravagant house our new boats.

If freepop made that choice his tax money is still being used for child tax credits to most americans, college tax credits, interest free college loans, Pell grants, child care writeoffs, college expense writeoffs.....i could go on and on without bringing into the conversation k-12 education and free school lunches.

Just because a guy saved himself a few bucks by not having kids doesnt mean everyone else is entitled to those expenditures from him..... but that is how we do things.
 

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True however he is still paying alot of money for services given to those with children. Not having kids for many is a choice like not buying an extravagant house our new boats.

If freepop made that choice his tax money is still being used for child tax credits to most americans, college tax credits, interest free college loans, Pell grants, child care writeoffs, college expense writeoffs.....i could go on and on without bringing into the conversation k-12 education and free school lunches.

Just because a guy saved himself a few bucks by not having kids doesnt mean everyone else is entitled to those expenditures from him..... but that is how we do things.
Yeah those are very valid points. I see what you are getting at. No matter how they do it we are paying for things we don’t necessarily personally benefit from. That’s for sure. It will always be that way.


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Having put kids through college without student loans I know how hard it was. Given todays political climate if I had to do it over again I would probably advise them to take out loans depending on the terms of the loan. I will be right up front and say I am against student loan forgiveness but if that's the game that is going to be played so be it. I'm am also against some of the loop holes and deductions in the tax code, but if they apply I take advantage of them.
 
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