[lostmale]

Reading this clip makes one wonder where deer management is heading between the auto insurance companies,farm bureau and all these other interest groups is going. This shows Michigans deer herd is not the only one under attack.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleynewsdispatch/sports/s_175072.html

 

[Whit1]

If I ever hunt in PA I'll be doing so very well armed. Those deer must be huge and with teeth of iron. They would have to be in order to decimate the forest, eating oak trees, etc. My little ol' .308 would merely tickle the behemoths that inhabit those PA woodlands, farms, and fields.

I can't imagine the mayhem caused by vehicle/deer collisions in PA. I shudder at the thought.

 

[Buddy Lee]

Originally posted by lostmale
Reading this clip makes one wonder where deer management is heading between the auto insurance companies,farm bureau and all these other interest groups is going. This shows Michigans deer herd is not the only one under attack.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleynewsdispatch/sports/s_175072.html

Prepare to be assaulted by the QDM folks who worship what Alt is doing in PA....

 

[Swamp Ghost]

Objective reporting at it's best. LMAO!

 

[Swamp Ghost]

One man's junk is another state's treasure:

A model program for bowhunting

 

[OTIS]

Prepare to be assaulted by the QDM folks who worship what Alt is doing in PA....

Funny I thought the same thing.
All the Chest Thumping "told you so" from PA threads are great, but this article will hold no merit what so ever.

 

[boehr]

Often it is made out to believe that insurance companies and others are out to decimate the deer herd. I believe that some of the tactics used can make it appear worse than it really is in reality.

The truth is that the majority of deer hunters, regardless if they are from PA, MI, WI or any other place wants lots of deer and wants almost an assurance of killing deer every year.

Michigan hunters again are not different from those from other states. They will compare their state to other states that do something that they agree with when their home state does not do something and say its better.

The truth is, Michigan along with PA or WI has too many deer and it is presenting problems that many hunters do not want to hear. Disease, insurance issues, crop damage, small deer, damage to habitat, supplemental feeding, artificial herd, cross bows, smokeless powder, baiting, mandatory deer checks are all results of much of the same issue - too many deer, hunters want more vs. more is not good. It is because of that, the controversy will never cease. Just my opinion.

 

[Jeff Sturgis]

I have greatly enjoyed my last 11 years hunting in PA. Although you don't see the herds of 50 coming down the hollow anymore, with a fork horn or 2, you do routinely see 4 or 5 different bucks a day, and 15-20 deer. Basically, less deer, more bucks...is that a bad thing? Also, our camp has experienced it's best success rates in the past 5 years in both number of bucks, and age of bucks.

Coming from a camp that has taken over 170 bucks on public land in over 30 years, with life-long PA residents....it's never been this good! At the same time, you can still get those 250yard+ shots through the open hardwoods due to the severe habitat degredation in the past. Lots of bucks, long shots, no baiting, no blinds, no ATV's, all on public land. It will spoil you.

 

[Hunter333]

Met a PA resident that owns a farm while I was at an AWLS camp in WY. He invited me to come to his farm next December and told me to BIG truck to bring all of my meat home. They get crop permits due to the HUGE number of deer there....... Sounds like I better get makin some ammo

 

[johnhunter]

Boehr, that was a superb post. Every sentence is right on the money. It is worth repeating.

Originally posted by boehr
The truth is that the majority of deer hunters, regardless if they are from PA, MI, WI or any other place wants lots of deer and wants almost an assurance of killing deer every year.

Michigan hunters again are not different from those from other states. They will compare their state to other states that do something that they agree with when their home state does not do something and say its better.

The truth is, Michigan along with PA or WI has too many deer and it is presenting problems that many hunters do not want to hear. Disease, insurance issues, crop damage, small deer, damage to habitat, supplemental feeding, artificial herd, cross bows, smokeless powder, baiting, mandatory deer checks are all results of much of the same issue - too many deer, hunters want more vs. more is not good. It is because of that, the controversy will never cease. Just my opinion.

The common desire of hunters for more deer is precisely why the deer herd should not be managed to suit the wishes of the masses of deer hunters.

 

[Jeff Sturgis]

At the same time, it seems people want success......quicker and easier. You see it in our young kids as well, they are worried more about where they will finish in the "rap-off" in Marquette, than planning for a real future.

I've found that no matter where I've hunted, public or private, whatever state, you generally get out of hunting, what you put into it. Lack of effort...lack of success, and don't complain abut it. I hunted over 300 hours on stand this year in 4 states, close to 100 sits, passed up over 30 bucks, and "only" harvested 2 bucks and a doe. 1 buck for 50 sits...and guys are complaining about the lack of success from a long weekend of hunting in the U.P., with a 1/2 day of scouting and only 3 or 4 evening sits!

As a society, I feel we want little effort or time but lots of success, and it's no different in the deer woods.

 

[Hunter333]

Northjeff..... I agree that kids are more concerned with being done with something than they are with doing it correctly, I see it EVERYDAY in my class!! I also agree that "you generally get out of hunting, what you put into it." The key word being GENERALLY. I spent many a moon scouting, sitting, walking, etc. attempting to find a good spot or 10 to sit. I found a few spots but saw NO deer. I soent many a moon in these places, signs all over, but still nothing. It would appear that my scouting and sitting skills need some work and I am willing to put in the time to do so!!

 

[Jeff Sturgis]

Location is oh so important too. You maybe doing everything just right, but just in the wrong location. That's where the "generally" definately comes in.

 

[Hunter333]

Location, location, location!!!! Easy to say, hard to find I will not give up though, its too much fun just being out there!!

 

[Whit1]

Originally posted by Hunter333
It would appear that my scouting and sitting skills need some work and I am willing to put in the time to do so!!

Hunt of the 333 Magnitude,
You scouting skills may need only a tweaking or two. Generally, scouting takes place out of season. The deer have settled back into their normal routine for that time of year. What we miss in our scouting, many times, is how deer are affected by the activities of other hunters. To effectively factor in this dimension of scouting is difficult at best, but, nevertheless, required.

 

[Hunter333]

Suggested months for the optimum scouting? Thanks for the help!!

 

[just ducky]

First of all, great post boehr! We have been on opposites sides many times on various posts, but I couldn't agree with you more here.

Second, NorthJeff and Hunter333....I've said it many times on this site that we have become an instant gratification society, especially the young people coming up. No one has patience any more, whether it's with hunting, completing school, looking for a good job, working hard to make a marriage work, you name it. That's why I have very vocally bashed the majority of the cable outdoors shows that continue to show the ranches in Texas and elsewhere, where deer are managed, and they sit in a shack and "score" the deer on the hoof before they take a shot. This is just not reality in the majority of hunting. But yet the young people coming up watch this, and believe it to be true. I continue to maintain that the QDM movement is a result of too many people wanting this way of "hunting" to be the norm, and willing to do anything it takes to get there. If you want to improve the health of the herd as a whole, it's a great idea. But you'll never convince me that those ranches in Texas are more concerned about the overall health of the herd than they are with the score of the bucks. They make no bones about it! Baiting was another example of "hunters" becoming set in their ways and coaxing the deer to come to them instead of doing the hard work to scout, stalk, etc. We now have created a generation of "hunters" who know nothing about scouting, stalking.....doing the hard work it takes. Okay.....take a breath......I'm done venting.

 

[Whit1]

Months for scouting?
December..........the old sign will give the hunter an idea of what the deer were doing in November during active hunting seasons.

Early Spring.......after the snow melt

September (archery) and October (firearms)

 

[Pinefarm]

The Texas properties (and many other states, and yes, they do many things better IHMO) that you speak of are "managed". Remember that concept? Management? They do care most about deer health. Because antler's are the indicator of herd health. They go hand in hand. You can't get decent antlers with a mismanaged herd. Mismanaged herd, no out of state hunters paying big money. Just look around... And instant gratification couldn't be more off base. I passed on bucks for 3 years and would be willing to pass on bucks for the next 5, if I thought it'd make any difference. This issue is like watching recent politics. I can't believe how many people believe that Bush is a Hitler like, AWOL deserter that's both the most cunning evil man on the planet, yet a bumbing fool. Which is it? Do we want a quick fix to our deer mess or are we trying to ruin it over a long time for everyone else to drive them out of the sport with QDM management? Do we want to hord all the bucks on private land for our own greed, or do we want to spread it so everyone has a chance at a decent buck? If you don't want to change anything, that must mean you're completely happy with our present situtation. Because without some form of change, what you see is what you get with our deer hunting for quite some time.

 

[Jeff Sturgis]

About the best thing you can do, is do it yourself! I don't mind saying that one of the main reasons I am living where I do, is that I can affordably own my little piece of heaven, and change my own hunting, on my own property, all by myself. We bought our house, and our 120 acres for $114,000, at a time when $100,000 in Waterford, where I grew up and lived for 27 years, could only buy you a small house in the worst of neighborhoods. I see young couples around here "struggling" to make ends meet on their $250,000 new house on an acre and complain that only the rich can afford to buy hunting land....

Now I'm not hoping you all move to the U.P., but owning land can be a very rewarding life-long endeavor of management activities. This coming year will be my 5th year of management activities on our current parcel, and I am honestly getting to the point where I can say that good things come to those who wait!

If you want to experience change the best way...do it yourself on your own land. At the same time, I'd love for the public land to be improved just the same, but the reality is that it isn't. If you can swing it, although it is and incredible amount of work and time, it can be very rewarding!