[Bambicidal Maniac]

People with private land should care less when the opener falls on because they dont have to compete with anyone for a place to hunt.

So there aren't going to be a lot fewer deer around by the weekend if the opener falls on a Monday? :lol:

They can open the season anytime they wish after nov 14th without worry.

:lol:

In fact some might argue that their place would hunt better if they waited due to the pressure that surrounds them pushing deer onto their own unpressured property.

:lol:

The same cant be saikd for public land though where the pressure is already pretty high regardless of what day the opener falls on. And lets not forget what swamp posted above. If you want more participants apparently you should be shooting for a Thurs opener.
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I noticed you've avoided answering my questions, so I'll ask them again so you can avoid them again. :lol: What does keeping the opener on the 15th buy us? Fewer hunters where you hunt? Is that your reason for supporting it? You're willing to forego a stronger economy for that?

 

[Riva]

People with private land should care less when the opener falls on because they dont have to compete with anyone for a place to hunt. They can open the season anytime they wish after nov 14th without worry. In fact some might argue that their place would hunt better if they waited due to the pressure that surrounds them pushing deer onto their own unpressured property. The same cant be saikd for public land though where the pressure is already pretty high regardless of what day the opener falls on. And lets not forget what swamp posted above. If you want more participants apparently you should be shooting for a Thurs opener.
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Michi..as I said, I can hunt on November 15 no matter what day of the week it falls, private or public. Regrettably, many people can not. This is all about creating opportunity--just like we toiled at with the crossbow regs..Remember?

And, let me tell you something as a private land owner. If you are not on your property on opening day, your land becomes "their" land with the locals and trespassers giving new meaning to the word "shared- ownership"!

 

[19rabbit52]

Luckily the majority of Mich. hunters are like me and love the Nov. 15 opener. As the DNR is continuosly adding seasons the only different one I would like to see is a primative muzzleloader season, Nov.1 thru Nov.8.

 

[Justin]

So, we maintain a system that, by design, works to keep people OUT of the woods? Isn't that what this subject all about..more for me, less for you. :dizzy:

If that is what this system is designed to do, it hasn't worked very well.:dizzy:

 

[dooman]

By keeping the opener on the 15th aren't we limiting the opportunity of the avg hunter, who may not be able to get it off. People get mad about limiting opportunity when it comes to APR's.

 

[Michihunter]

What does keeping the opener on the 15th buy us? Fewer hunters where you hunt? Is that your reason for supporting it? You're willing to forego a stronger economy for that?

First of all you are only assuming that you are right when facts actually dispute your contentions. Secondly what we lose are three things that 84% of the public agrees with-hunter support, tradition, and variety. None of these apparently mean anything to you but to 84% of the hunting public they are important. Oh yeah, one other thing that makes the 15th important to me is that its also my birthday. LOL
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[Rut-N-Strut]

I haven't missed a Nov. 15th opener for the past 37 seasons. Missed a couple days of high school for the 1st 3 yrs, and took a couple of days at my 1st job, and took approved vacation for 33 straight yrs. at my present job. Never an unexcused absence. Due to unforeseen rule changes at work, I may have to take an unexcused absence & reprimand for the 2012 season.:sad:.....:lol:

 

[Seldom]

Interesting thread but certainly nothing new about a Saturday opener. I was here hunting during those handful of years when it opened on a Saturday as were many reading along here. I suggest for those of you who weren't deer hunting than or can't remember, to answer the question of WHY our deer firearm season isn't opening on a Saturday is to know the reason WHY it reverted BACK to the 15th!

 

[Bambicidal Maniac]

First of all you are only assuming that you are right when facts actually dispute your contentions.

Neither of us know what the economic impacts of the change would be, but these "facts" that you rely on fly in the face of logic and are so far completely unsupported by economic analysis. An old fossil who's made a career in a field unrelated to economics has made a claim that's highly suspect. I've never been prone to automatically trusting what the government says. Have you?

Secondly what we lose are three things that 84% of the public agrees with

84% of hunters is not 84% of the public. And the popularity of an idea among hunters is something that can change over time as bogus arguments are dispatched and old fossils who cling to tradition are replaced by people who don't get attached to stupid positions that harm their interests. I asked before (and never got an answer) are we really going to lose any hunters if we change away from the 15th? If so, why?

 

[Riva]

First of all you are only assuming that you are right when facts actually dispute your contentions. Secondly what we lose are three things that 84% of the public agrees with-hunter support, tradition, and variety. None of these apparently mean anything to you but to 84% of the hunting public they are important. Oh yeah, one other thing that makes the 15th important to me is that its also my birthday. LOL
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And, the same 84% will show the same level of support if the opener was on a Saturday.

Honestly, I think there is a subliminal glee among some that like the fact that a gun opener occurs on a weekday because they know there will be fewer people in the woods. More for me. More for me. More for me.

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are at a crossroads with this sport. And, we should be doing things to encourage MORE people to participate, not LESS. A Saturday opener could bring in a person totally new to hunting who might not otherwise take time during the week day to do this.

Are new people the threat or, are MORE people the threat? At the end of the day, I think some are masquerading behind "tradition" whereas in fact, all they really want is more for me!

 

[Bambicidal Maniac]

I suggest for those of you who weren't deer hunting than or can't remember, to answer the question of WHY our deer firearm season isn't opening on a Saturday is to know the reason WHY it reverted BACK to the 15th!

Why? Are conditions the same now as they were then? Was there a split opener then?

 

[Michihunter]

84% is not just a simple majority its an overwhelming amount of support. Why would anyone want to go against something that is agreed upon by so many? Is it because someone thinks they know better than those voicing their support? And once again it is a Thursday that has shown the most participants. If you are for getting more people involved why aren't you promoting a Thursday opener? Is it bcause just maybe it doesn't agree with your own particular desires?
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[TVCJohn]

Interesting thread but certainly nothing new about a Saturday opener. I was here hunting during those handful of years when it opened on a Saturday as were many reading along here. I suggest for those of you who weren't deer hunting than or can't remember, to answer the question of WHY our deer firearm season isn't opening on a Saturday is to know the reason WHY it reverted BACK to the 15th!

Ya...I'd like to learn the "why" also. Might be educational.

Also...I think Wisconson does Saturdays. Why didn't they switch?

 

[Riva]

84% is not just a simple majority its an overwhelming amount of support. Why would anyone want to go against something that is agreed upon by so many? Is it because someone thinks they know better than those voicing their support? And once again it is a Thursday that has shown the most participants. If you are for getting more people involved why aren't you promoting a Thursday opener? Is it bcause just maybe it doesn't agree with your own particular desires?
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Michi...not trying to pic a fight but what is it that is so magical about the 15th? Is it some cherished tradition? If yes, what tradition is destroyed by always opening it a few days before or after the 15th and on a Saturday? It's still a "tradition".

Again, I can't help but conclude that the reluctance to move the gun opener to a Saturday is rooted more in having less people in the woods than any other factor.

I'll give you a higher case...I genuinely like recruiting new people into hunting. I have a nice parcel of land and a house on the Lake not far from the property. I can show people a genuinely nice time in a first class environment.
If I invite say a friend and his school aged child to come up to my place for a weekday opener, there are two major considerations that come in to play.. (1) Does the invitee wish to take time off his work. (2) Can the parent take the child out of school?

We all agree that opening day is "special". But, we now live in a day when weekdays are dedicated to other matters more pressing than hunting. (God, it takes balls to say that)

 

[Michihunter]

For me its the fact that at least 4 yrs out of 7 I can use it as an excuse for a long weekend. The othe 3 yrs it will fall on a Wed, Sat, or a Sun. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one this benefits in this way either. Another thing not taken into account is the strict length of the first bow season as a result of the current structure. You want to talk about fair? Give the bowhunters a few extra days or a few less days for the first season and watch the complaints pour in. And of course maybe you missed it but my birthday opens firearm season which is the only selfish reason I personally would have for keeping it as is.
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[Riva]

For me its the fact that at least 4 yrs out of 7 I can use it as an excuse for a long weekend. The othe 3 yrs it will fall on a Wed, Sat, or a Sun. I'm quite sure I'm not the only one this benefits in this way either. Another thing not taken into account is the strict length of the first bow season as a result of the current structure. You want to talk about fair? Give the bowhunters a few extra days or a few less days for the first season and watch the complaints pour in. And of course maybe you missed it but my birthday opens firearm season which is the only selfish reason I personally would have for keeping it as is.
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I just got done reading an article from a NY hunter who wanted NY to go back to a MONDAY opener, versus the current Saturday opener up there. Reasons stated: gives him a few days on the weekend to "scout", sight in the guns, party hard at night, chase women, and sleep in. All biologically sound reasons, IMHO.:lol:

 

[Bambicidal Maniac]

84% is not just a simple majority its an overwhelming amount of support. Why would anyone want to go against something that is agreed upon by so many?

Because even a supermajority can make a stupid choice. One look at some of our past presidential choices supports that, doesn't it?

Is it because someone thinks they know better than those voicing their support?

No, it's because someone can tell that the reasoning behind the support is not worthy of being called reasoning. Dodging questions, throwing up unsupported facts, repeating irrelevant arguments, and ignoring the possible consequences of being wrong is the kind of "reasoning" I expect from people who aren't concerned about minor things like jobs and skilled workers and investment capital heading out of state.

And once again it is a Thursday that has shown the most participants.

I've still seen no support for that argument that is based on statistically meaningful data.

If you are for getting more people involved why aren't you promoting a Thursday opener?

Setting aside the issue that I don't trust your claim about Thursday, I would gladly accept a Thursday opener if it would also gain us a split opener. I think quite a few hunters would find it fairly easier to get two days off at the end of a week for a four day hunt. The main thing is to get away from this fixed date that creates scheduling instability. A fixed day of the week, Thu-Sat, seems much better for maximizing both participation and positive economic impact.

Is it bcause just maybe it doesn't agree with your own particular desires?

Clearly not. Now can I get honest and relevant answers to my questions or will you continue to pretend you've got a "reasonable" case for the 15th?

 

[Michihunter]

Since when does a fixed date cause scheduling conflicts? Do you have a difficult time scheduling Christmas every year? How about the 4th of July? Or should we change those to Saturdays as well? As for answering your questions I've done so many times. I can't help it if you don't like the answers. But once again here is the moost relevant answer- 84% of hunters support opening firearms season on Nov 15th. Aside from any biological consideration you might provide that is the only answer that matters.
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[swampbuck]

Riva,

In relation to why a thursday instead of saturday......I live in an area that was populated by deer camps prior to the "reduced" deer density. We still have more cottage owners than residents including the majority of my neighborhood. And some camps around.. someone already mentioned that weekday openers result in a longer stay/opening weekend. THAT IS A FACT, I have personally witnessed it for every opener for decades. Spin it any way you want, the data shows that Thursday openers have the highest participation........And 84% support Nov.15, Which if you consider it gives everyone the favorite day on a rotational basis.

Would you still support it if it was the saturday before the 15th.......Or the saturday after but archery closed on the 14th ?

 

[Bambicidal Maniac]

For me its the fact that at least 4 yrs out of 7 I can use it as an excuse for a long weekend.

Who are you giving this excuse to? Can't you just take Monday and Tuesday off after the opener every year?

Another thing not taken into account is the strict length of the first bow season as a result of the current structure. You want to talk about fair?

Give the bowhunters a few extra days or a few less days for the first season and watch the complaints pour in.

Most of the bowhunters that I know are also rifle hunters. I really don't think they're a deal breaker.

And of course maybe you missed it but my birthday opens firearm season which is the only selfish reason I personally would have for keeping it as is.

It doesn't seem so.