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Money spent on Sat/Sun rarely will fluctuate regardless of what day the opener begins on. Hotels, restaurants, gas stations etc are gonnq make 5hat money regardless But if the opener begins on a Wednesday or Thursday for example, they will now get an extra two or three days of huge revenue in addition to the weekend. On a Sat opener hunters will be leaving Sun night to get back to work Mon morning.
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I have been an advocate for a split firearm opener for a long time.

Here are the highlight:

Upper Peninsula (Northern Zone):Opens on the Saturday before November 15
Lower Peninsula: Opens on the Saturday 7 days later

Both seasons run minimum of 16 days
Both contain three full weekends of hunting
Both always end on a Sunday

In the UP, season extended to always include Thanksgiving weekend

Here's the template:


Practically speaking, I don't think that I would travel to the UP simply because they have a firearm opener there. What's more important though, is a Saturday opener and having 3 full weekends.

Things are much different than they were just 30 years ago. People have more commitment to jobs, family and other pursuits to maintain a rigid November 15 model. Simply use November 15 as a benchmark and try to expand opportunity that coincides with today's societal needs, rather than yesterday's.
 

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Things are much different than they were just 30 years ago. People have more commitment to jobs, family and other pursuits to maintain a rigid November 15 model.
B.S. The biggest difference is that men no longer have the balls to take it off. Most of those that want the change are those that can't save their vacation days. They've used them up in July doing what "momma" wants. I saw it every year where I worked. I've seen it countless times right here where guys say "then I won't have to burn up my vacation on opening day". If they consider that to be "burning" up their vac. then it's not that important.
 

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Money spent on Sat/Sun rarely will fluctuate regardless of what day the opener begins on. Hotels, restaurants, gas stations etc are gonnq make 5hat money regardless But if the opener begins on a Wednesday or Thursday for example, they will now get an extra two or three days of huge revenue in addition to the weekend. On a Sat opener hunters will be leaving Sun night to get back to work Mon morning.
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If the opener begins on a Saturday, it seems likely that more people will buy a tag and go hunting. That means more travel and everything that more travel means. All those who could not get time off during the week will be more likely to participate on a weekend opener and some of those would not have hunted at all that season if they could not hunt the opener. Unless you can balance that by reasoning that an equal or greater number of hunters would, for some reason, not travel and not hunt if the opener was not on the 15th, the tradition excuse is just silly sentiment.

Furthermore, if people could be sure the opener would be on a day that they would likely be able to hunt on, they would be more likely to commit to and invest in hunting. That means everything from hunting equipment to hunting land. Greater investment in hunting is good for the economy and more participation in hunting is good for the future of hunting.
 

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B.S. The biggest difference is that men no longer have the balls to take it off. Most of those that want the change are those that can't save their vacation days. They've used them up in July doing what "momma" wants. I saw it every year where I worked. I've seen it countless times right here where guys say "then I won't have to burn up my vacation on opening day". If they consider that to be "burning" up their vac. then it's not that important.
I've known quite a few people who can't get the time off because someone with higher seniority at their job gets to. In other words, people put in for vacation and minimum staffing requirements of their employer overrule hunting the opener for the low seniority guy. This is especially likely with younger hunters.

But vacation time is not an issue with me. A ridiculously impeded state economy is.
 

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Current figures do not show that big of a disparity due to when a opener falls on. All you have to do is check firearm hunter numbers in each of the last 10 yrs to understand that. Compare them to the number of overall hunters and you'll see that years with a Saturday firearms opener isn't even the year with most participants. If memory serves its either a Wed or Thurs.
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Practically speaking, I don't think that I would travel to the UP simply because they have a firearm opener there.
I think being close to the dividing line for a split opener would promote travel across that line. I also think people are more likely to take a 2-5 hour trip after work on a friday night than they are to take vacation and then take a 2-5 hour trip after work on a monday night. When both of those are combined, I could see the price of land above the line (and therefore property tax revenue) going up. Regardless of whether that's the UP or the Zone 2/3 border, the state wins.
 

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Current figures do not show that big of a disparity due to when a opener falls on. All you have to do is check firearm hunter numbers in each of the last 10 yrs to understand that. Compare them to the number of overall hunters and you'll see that years with a Saturday firearms opener isn't even the year with most participants. If memory serves its either a Wed or Thurs.
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You're basically taking the position that license sales and economic activity won't increase with a saturday opener because they didn't in one or two years out of 10. That's an incredibly small sample size. I'm not buying it. You're also ignoring the potential benefits that might come from having the stability of always having a saturday opener and a split opener. It seems to me that if people know they will likely be able to hunt the opener or even two openers, they will be more likely to become hunters and to continue hunting after starting college or beginning careers. As I said, I can't prove that, but I think this state's economy is dire enough to try things that cost little to implement, have low downside risk (is anybody really going to quit hunting if the opener isn't on the 15th?), and have the potential for increasing economic activity through getting people off their couches on the weekends.
 

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B.S. The biggest difference is that men no longer have the balls to take it off. Most of those that want the change are those that can't save their vacation days. They've used them up in July doing what "momma" wants. I saw it every year where I worked. I've seen it countless times right here where guys say "then I won't have to burn up my vacation on opening day". If they consider that to be "burning" up their vac. then it's not that important.
Justin, Thank you for that hormonally inspired diatribe. You give new meaning to the word "wrong". :dizzy:

I'm self-employed so I don't have to ask for permission from anybody to take a few days off. However; during the week I like to go hunting...I go hunting for MONEY! That's my choice and I like it that way.

Others are not so fortunate. They MUST be at work or they have other obligations that prohibit them from participating during a weekday. There is no testicular deficiency in that, as you assert. It's simply called having higher priorities and obligations.

It truly amazes me that shifting a popular "recreational" activity by just a few measly days in order to expand opportunity can travel down such a callous and thoughtless track. :dizzy:
 

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Public land is already crowded on opening day. What you are proposing is to increase that crowd in order to possibly increase revenue on the two days its already at its highest? To me thats illogical. If I were a business owner I'd be more interested in you telling me how I can increase that revenue Mon- Fri.
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The most relevant peice of current data....

84% of hunters support the Nov.15 opener.

The legislature set the date and they are the only ones who can change it....Good luck getting them to change it with 84% support.

As far as economics, Russ Mason stated last year in relation to this topic that a thursday opener has the most economic benefit and the highest participation.
 

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Public land is already crowded on opening day. What you are proposing is to increase that crowd in order to possibly increase revenue on the two days its already at its highest? To me thats illogical. If I were a business owner I'd be more interested in you telling me how I can increase that revenue Mon- Fri.
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The state is not comprised solely of public land hunters and business owners who want to increase their Mon-Fri revenue. We're talking about a possible overall better economic picture for the entire state. Are you against that?

Knowing you will likely have the opener off every year will make it more likely that some will invest in a vacation cabin or hunting land. When owning either or both becomes more desirable, the cost of those goes up and they bring a greater share of the property tax revenue. Owners of cabins and camps become more likely to spend their summer vacations there and to spend more time and money improving their properties to maximize their enjoyment of them. That means everything from restaurants to hardware stores will see more activity during all four seasons simply because people will want to spend time there instead of parked in front of the tube. I see this because I live where people come up from downstate to ride snowmobiles and ATVs, hunt turkeys and deer, fish, swim, hike, plant food plots, build deer blinds, etc.

What does keeping the opener on the 15th buy us? Fewer hunters where you hunt? Is that your reason for supporting it? You're willing to forego a stronger economy for that?
 

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Public land is already crowded on opening day. What you are proposing is to increase that crowd in order to possibly increase revenue on the two days its already at its highest? To me thats illogical. If I were a business owner I'd be more interested in you telling me how I can increase that revenue Mon- Fri.
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I made absolutely no reference to increasing revenue. What I said was a Saturday opener will increase OPPORTUNITY because in 2012 AD, people cant get off work willy nilly like they did 40 years ago working at Dodge Main. If we get more people hunting and sell a few more licenses--great!

And frankly, I don't have a solution for the problem of overcrowding on public land other than to recommend that you don't hunt there if its so bad. Hunt on private land. However; that somehow equates into opening one's wallet. And, that is something some people steadfastly refuse to do, or can't do because they're taking so much time off of work going hunting during the week.


Golly, I think this subject is going full circle. ;)
 

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Justin, Thank you for that hormonally inspired diatribe. You give new meaning to the word "wrong". :dizzy:

I'm self-employed so I don't have to ask for permission from anybody to take a few days off. However; during the week I like to go hunting...I go hunting for MONEY! That's my choice and I like it that way.

Others are not so fortunate. They MUST be at work or they have other obligations that prohibit them from participating during a weekday. There is no testicular deficiency in that, as you assert. It's simply called having higher priorities and obligations.

It truly amazes me that shifting a popular "recreational" activity by just a few measly days in order to expand opportunity can travel down such a callous and thoughtless track. :dizzy:
Call it what you will, I speak from experience. I have never in 36 years had much of a problem getting the opener off. Most of the other hunters are out of vacation time by November. They could never figure out how I had a couple weeks left. It was because I didn't spend it at the beach or cottage in July. I worked straight through the summer. I made sure that my wife understood that nothing would interfere with my hunting, if it does it would be my choice. You are right though...It's all about priorities. I chose a lifestyle that would allow me to have the time to hunt, fish and trap. If you didn't, it was your choice.
 

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And frankly, I don't have a solution for the problem of overcrowding on public land other than to recommend that you don't hunt there if its so bad.
I have the solution...don't do anything stupid to create overcrowding in the first place.;)
 

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People with private land should care less when the opener falls on because they dont have to compete with anyone for a place to hunt. They can open the season anytime they wish after nov 14th without worry. In fact some might argue that their place would hunt better if they waited due to the pressure that surrounds them pushing deer onto their own unpressured property. The same cant be saikd for public land though where the pressure is already pretty high regardless of what day the opener falls on. And lets not forget what swamp posted above. If you want more participants apparently you should be shooting for a Thurs opener.
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As far as economics, Russ Mason stated last year in relation to this topic that a thursday opener has the most economic benefit and the highest participation.
Do you automatically trust whatever Russ Mason says? Michigan bureaucrats are notoriously bad at understanding the big picture when it comes to economics and notoriously good at delivering self-serving pronouncements.

Can you provide a link to the economic impact analysis he based this on? I'm guessing he didn't consider both a split opener and a Saturday opener. I'm also guessing he didn't make any prediction one way or the other about the long-term impact once people have adapted to the stability of opportunity that a Saturday opener provides.
 

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I have the solution...don't do anything stupid to create overcrowding in the first place.;)
So, we maintain a system that, by design, works to keep people OUT of the woods? Isn't that what this subject all about..more for me, less for you. :dizzy:
 
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