Its a no brainer. Every hunter wants the trophy buck (even the meat hunter) and the odds go way up of getting the opportunity on QDM land where combined properties have the same goals and everyone cooperates. But you don't have to be a qdm member to make it happen or start a co op. The area I hunt most land owners are selective and you can see the results. You don't hear anyone complaining about the hunting or not seeing any deer.

 

I picked Non managed.
The reason I did is because of the 6 or 8 point rule. On a true QDM managed land APR's are not needed. APR's get lumped up with QDM and it is disgusting to me. QDM is very simple......Don't shoot your young bucks and kill the proper deer according to the population levels. At the same time you have to look at the deer herd and adjust to hunter expectations. That is not 100% what QDM is about but it is the most simplest way to begin practicing it. Once "restrictions" are put out there participation will begin to drop. It takes hunters a few years to adjust to hunting under QDM, once adjusted normally they will restrict themselves to what buck should be killed or not.

If you would of just said a QDM managed land, I would of picked that one, but you through in APR's.

 

Non managed. sorry QDM people I would love to say QDM for my choice. But... Here is the story, My dad and I have hunted the same peice of property for the past 15 yrs and for the past 6yrs we tried to do our own little management program. We even got a few of the neighbors to join in. We thought over the past few yrs We would be seeing more of a varity of ages of bucks on the properities. But all we are seeing are little bucks and big does. last season I watched the neighbors that chose not to particeapate with us shoot everything that walked into their woods. They dont care what they shoot. I know now that they wont change so this year I will be filling my tags with whatever walks into view. So no I dont want to deal with management land ever again.

 

I picked Non managed.
The reason I did is because of the 6 or 8 point rule. On a true QDM managed land APR's are not needed. APR's get lumped up with QDM and it is disgusting to me. QDM is very simple......Don't shoot your young bucks and kill the proper deer according to the population levels. At the same time you have to look at the deer herd and adjust to hunter expectations. That is not 100% what QDM is about but it is the most simplest way to begin practicing it. Once "restrictions" are put out there participation will begin to drop. It takes hunters a few years to adjust to hunting under QDM, once adjusted normally they will restrict themselves to what buck should be killed or not.

If you would of just said a QDM managed land, I would of picked that one, but you through in APR's.

The 6 pnt or 8 pnt rule is would only be there because the land would be open to hunt by anyone, and you and I both know most hunter cannot determine age of bucks with any accuracy. 2.5 yr olds would be fair game, thus the 6 pnt or 8 pnt restriction. Pnt restriction would be easier than a spread requirement.

 

I've been passing yearling bucks, even on state land, since 2007. I haven't shot a buck since. On our leased 120 acres we have seen an increased number of 2.5yr old bucks along with usually one or two 3.5yr olds on trail cam each year. But haven't reaped any rewards yet. I'm okay with that and I'm going to continue passing the yearlings, so I chose the qdm land with the apr's.
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Soggy, who voted for non managed so I don't waste an invitation?


Sounds to me like Biggy daddy WANTS to hunt managed but circumstances are making it difficult so it makes for sense to give up on the neighbors that are with him, and join the ones that won't.

I've had plenty of both options and it's an easy and obvious choice for me. I don't manage the way I do because of what any one neighbor does or doesn't do, I do it because I'm confident that it's the right thing to do.

Big T

 

I have been trying to only harvest 2 year old bucks and older for the last 4 years. I get one chance a year at a deer in this range. I have let many 1 year olds go. It is tuff to see the neighbors harvest bucks I let go,but if I shot them for sure they will not make it. So hopefully one makes it for me next year. I think the general mind set of hunters is slowly changing. I just want people to be proud of what they shoot. If they shoot a spike and say all I got was a spike throw the antlers away they should have just shot a doe. I have had a harder time harvesting a mature doe some nights then 1 year old bucks!!

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I'd always rather hunt in an area with a healthy population that includes mature animals.
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If you think its tough when you pass up little bucks on private thinking that the neighbor probably will kill him, try doing it on public when you know if the little guy runs past someone its almost bound to wind up in the back of a truck. I have been passing up little bucks on public for at least 5 years now. in those 5 years i have only taken 2 -2/1/2 yr old 8 pointers. I dont do it because i think they will have a chance to grow rather i do it because i hope a bigger one will come along later.
My choice would be managed for sure.
I do give you guys credit for managing your own land. I hope to find the right lease someday, one that i can call the shots on and provide habitat until then its public unmanaged ground.

 

I chose option 1. Non-managed public land. As far as reasons......I should keep those to myself.

 

A similar poll should be, would you prefer to live in a safer area, with lower crime, higher wages and employment, better schools, more postive experiences and more opportunity options or would you rather live in a higher crime area, with lower wages, higher unemployment, lesser schools, with fewer positive experiences and less opportunity options?

I wonder how many would choose the later because they don't want "the man" telling them what to do.

And if you think of it, the former example is more typical of properties with a thought out plan and the later is more typical of properties with no thought out plan.

Many who have hunted TDM lands their entire life have never just watched a young buck up close because their buck opprtunities are often so low, that watching and learning more was never an option because they were mainly focused on getting a shot.

In better neighborhoods, when someone see's a sweet car, they're more apt to simply enjoy the beauty of the car. In lesser neighborhoods, the thought is often more "how do I take that car?", and taking it by any means is often pondered.

Just from my anecdotal experience, it seems like if there's a rare more mature buck in a TDM area, the chances that that buck gets jacklighted are much higher than in area's where there's more mature bucks and people think they actually have a chance in killing it legally.

Just in my immediate area over the last 3-4 years, 2 of the best bucks in the area got jacklighted where the buck didn't drop in their tracks and the poachers fled, only for the landowners to find the buck dead in the field the next morning. Both were single rifle shots in early October. In both cases, the farmers looked out in the early morning and saw a big dead buck laying in the field. In both cases, the CO's and local cop figured it was someone within only a few miles of the violation. It's also another reason that I think the "no shining in November" rule should be expanded to no shining in during any open season. If it's good enough for November to decrease jacklighting, it should be good enough for October.

 

I've hunted both and I would vote for a managed area, it really pays off. I look at it in the way of every participant in the area makes it just that much better. Not every one will want to follow the same guide lines, the main focus is to harvest an adequate number of does and grow mature bucks. We've been trying to manage on my dads 90 for about 15 years now and not a ton of success, however this fall we established a co-op and held a great informal meeting, between the meet and alot of leg work on my part talking to residents around us there are now approx 1545acres that is actively working towards passing bucks at 1.5yrs! Every one dreams of taking their buck of a life time and often settles for a spike, if you knew the neighbor won't shoot it chances are better the hunter will pass it up. My personal thoughts here....why are guys so against shooting a button buck that are willing to shoot a small 1.5yo. if the rack gets tossed in the corner of the garage then essentially the only difference is about 10lbs of meat.

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My assumption is, most guys who'd voted against either haven't had much experience hunting more thoughtfully managed area's or never have and rely on hearsay.

For example, many other states have a more thoughtful management program simply due to their tag structure. While you always get someone who went to a nice restaurant and had a less than great experience, I've never personally met a deer hunter that went out of state and came back saying Michigan does it better or that Michigan deer hunters have a better mindset.

I've seen guys with anonymous online screen names post negative claims, but I've never had a guy look me in the eye and make that claim. And over the years, I've talked with plenty.

 

i picked managed lands, it really does make a difference. taking the right amount of does and watching your younger bucks grow into mature monsters is what i like best.
from what i am hearing, 12 counties in the n-w lower will be put on apr next season(4 or more). this should increase deer number along with doe permits that are much needed in our immediate area.

 

There was a show on the outdoor channel a few weeks back about a ranch in texas they did everything on one ranch to promote QDM and on another one they did nothing and they saw no real difference in large antler buck numbers so they stated.

But again hunting in a high pressure are as to a low pressure area makes a big difference that is why ranches out west that limit their hunting have better odds of hunters taking good bucks while of ther locations don't. There is more to it than passing on small bucks especially the number of hunters that is why if some areas have a lot more private land they might have better bucks taken because if you find a piece of public land you can get to you might have a better chance of taking a good buck compared to others but again it is all about being at the right place at the right tme so get lucky... QDM or Not.

I have an 8 Point rule now and the last 5 years I have not see any buck in the last 8 years of any kind and no mature does either. But I stick with 8 or better for me...

Newaygo1

 

Just so the readers know, when we're talking about "managed area's", passing most yearling bucks is merely one leg of the chair.

Habitat/timber management is most important, and essentially the base that's needed for the other legs and also takes the longest time to better manage/fix, IMHO. Then better managing herd numbers/sex ratio's, better management of hunter movement/pressure/sanctuary and then having most yearling bucks get the opportunity to wise up and get to 2.5 years old.

You cannot have a "managed area" by only passing most yearling bucks.

 

couldn't agree more,

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In better neighborhoods, when someone see's a sweet car, they're more apt to simply enjoy the beauty of the car. In lesser neighborhoods, the thought is often more "how do I take that car?", and taking it by any means is often pondered.

i live in Frederic. when ever i see a fancy dancy truck i often think how much fun it would be to steal it and put a lift kit on it with mud tires and see how deep a mud hole i can put er through. And then once its trashed lift the hood and put in the yard as a yard ornament.

 

I've hunted both and I would vote for a managed area, it really pays off. I look at it in the way of every participant in the area makes it just that much better. Not every one will want to follow the same guide lines, the main focus is to harvest an adequate number of does and grow mature bucks. We've been trying to manage on my dads 90 for about 15 years now and not a ton of success, however this fall we established a co-op and held a great informal meeting, between the meet and alot of leg work on my part talking to residents around us there are now approx 1545acres that is actively working towards passing bucks at 1.5yrs! Every one dreams of taking their buck of a life time and often settles for a spike, if you knew the neighbor won't shoot it chances are better the hunter will pass it up. My personal thoughts here....why are guys so against shooting a button buck that are willing to shoot a small 1.5yo. if the rack gets tossed in the corner of the garage then essentially the only difference is about 10lbs of meat.

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Congrats to you and your hard work! It will pay off. Usually those that are willing to put in the work and effort eventually reap the reward!

 

Baldwin and Frederic....Now all we need is someone from St.Hellen.:lol:

 

i live in Frederic. when ever i see a fancy dancy truck i often think how much fun it would be to steal it and put a lift kit on it with mud tires and see how deep a mud hole i can put er through. And then once its trashed lift the hood and put in the yard as a yard ornament.

Well duh...
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I see the poll is 20/25 I am pretty sure that 20 people are lying to themselves or never had the chance to hunt a somewhat managed land. To the guy that has given up don't do it. Your neighbor can shoot all he wants but he can't get them all. If a 1/4 of the immature bucks make it through now your cutting into that 1/4 when you could be harvesting the buck that was going to walk in front of you in two years and put that buck on your wall that you have been dreaming about. Try and talk to those neighbors.

 

Soggy...What percentage of yearling bucks is the Lindquist/pinefarm APR supposed to save ?

 

No question for me, I'd rather hunt the QDM managed lands. I've hunted both and get a lot more excitement out of seeing older bucks and more competition/buck movement during the rut. On QDM managed lands, I've seen multiple older bucks in one sit several times, bucks fighting, older bucks snortwheezing with hair standing on end, chasing smaller bucks away, seeing multiple bucks in December sits, all kinds of exciting activity that was very rare to see on non managed lands. Also, the shed hunting is much more productive on managed lands.

 

ifrom what i am hearing, 12 counties in the n-w lower will be put on apr next season(4 or more). this should increase deer number along with doe permits that are much needed in our immediate area.

What you are hearing is incorrect, there is no way the DNR is going to go with a 4 pt. APR in the NLP.

A 4 or more restriction in the NLP would put 75% of all bucks off the table. Couple that with the fact that antlerless permits are unavailable in many parts of the NLP and you might as well just cancel hunting season there. It would be a disaster for deer hunting in the NLP.

If an APR is going to increase deer numbers, then why did the DNR claim that enacting an APR in the NELP would help to reduce the deer population?