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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK everyone, I got a muzzleloader from Santa and wanted to get a scope and some accessories for it. It's a Thompson/Omega and I got some Gander Mountain gift certificates from family as presents,(guess where I'm going yet)?
I went to the Utica Gander Mountain and was so frusterated by the time I left that I got cash for all my cards and vowed to never return. One employee told me to use an over/under mount and the gun smith told me there crap. The icing on the cake is when they gave me a block mount to hook the over/under mounts to but the gun smith had no screws. I would figure that if your working on guns everyday you should have extra parts around, wouldn't you? After he told me what a bad idea it was to use this type of mount, I got what he suggested. But since I already purchased the first set at the gun counter, I would have to go wait in the long line up front to get this exchange done. That's crap!!! Both had the same price on them. But since they didn't have any screws around I had to leave anyways. I went to the front and waited 20 minutes and by the time I got to the register, I returned all of it and took the cash. I wouldn't settle for another in store card. Now that I don't have anymore of their gift cards I'm going to Michi-gun in St. Clair Shores where my wife bought it. Price doesn't matter when you know your dealing with people that know what you need. Now that I've heard pro's and con's about over/under mounts. Any advise from the members would be greatly appreciated. This is my first muzzleloader and want to put a basic dusk to dawn scope on it.
 

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Sorry to hear about your experience. :(

I have a TC Encore and I put the Mueller 2 x 7 Red Dot (illuminated reticle) scope on it. Great scope for a muzzleloader and I really like the illuminated reticle in low light situations. I shot a doe close to dusk and the red dot made it real easy putting the scope right on her shoulder. They are also a sponser of this site, which is a plus in my book. I like low mounts so that your cheek is still on the stock. Forget see thru bases.
 

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I started out with a see-through style weaver mounts (assume that's what you mean by over-under) on mine, and ended up pulling them in favor of Burris Signature rings with the offset inserts. I found that I didn't use the open sites at all, and the high mounts put me in an unatural shooting position as compared to my other rifles. I like th erings with the inserts as you can pretty much dial the scope in without having to even use the adjustments on the scope, and the inserts protect the scope finish and compensate for any misalignment.

Although I'm generally not a fan of weaver bases, for the muzzleloader I think they are the way to go as it is an inexpensive way to have an easy method of removing the scope and remounting it while having it pretty much stay sighted in. This is nice for muzzleloaders as you easily can pull the scope off for cleaning.

I put a Burris FFII 1.75x5 w/#4 reticle on it, and it is great. I also like the Mueler 2x7 sportdot. I got a huge deal on the Burris, otherwise it would have the Mueller on it.
 

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Buy the T/C scope mounting bracket and put a variable scope starting with a lower power and you don't need see through mounts. They make the gun heavier and you'll never use them anyways.
 

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I often hear people say that not to get see thru mounts. I disagree with that opinion for the simple fact that you will have a backup system in case something goes wrong with your scope. Fog, bad weather, malfunction ect; Now, I know about quality optics. I have a Bushnell Elite 2X7X32 on my CVA Optima Pro with the Rainguard lenses. However, I feel more confident if I have the open sights in case something goes wrong with the scope. If I were to bang my scope very hard against a tree or rock accidentially while in the field, I would use the open sights until I could put out a confidence round. Thats just me. The weight difference is minimal and the eye alignment is not really that big of a deal. At least to me with my shoulder and CVA. I do the same thing with my 7400 which also has see thru mounts. Any deer under 30-35 yards, I use the open sights for sure. Why mess with adjusting to a lower power on a variable scope when it is that close? Furthermore, scopes often dont pick up those little 1 inch saplings as well as open sights/open eyes can. Many of deer have been missed this way. Actually, when you hear about somebody missing a super close deer, 90% of the time, you will find a sapling with a hole in it that the scope did not/could not focus on.

Take care,
JAS
 

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Although it is a matter of personal preference and comfort, I do like the see thru mounts and have them on my 30-06 and my .22 squirrel gun. On the .22 I have a 6x24 target scope mounted and have to agree with JAS that on close shots I use the iron sights as it is much quicker to find the target and get off the shot. Then there was last years deer season, thanksgiving day after the heavy snowfall, all the snow stuck to all the trees and saplings, while attempting to get to my stand an nice 8pt was casually walking near me, I threw the gun up and lo and behold the sight on my shotgun (millet red dot) was plugged with snow that came off the brush while walking. With no see thru on that gun, needless to say had to watch that deer walk on by without a shot. Eye alignment is a touch higher but as with any sight, practice will provide the comfort zone. As far as these mounts adding weight????? maybe an ounce???
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
When you put the base on it, it just about blocks the sights anyways doesn't it? I really wish I had the see through sights on my 30-06 but I think I will look very closely at them at Michi-gun today. I didn't think of the elevated eye level much, it brings up a very good point. Thanks to everyone. Any other advise just keep them coming.
Thanks,
Mike
 

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Go with the under over, you never know, with out say you bump your scope against a tree ( hard ) now you have some doubt in your mind when you take your shot,,,,,, and i have deer so close where i could only see brown in my scope, had to go to the under to take a shot ........
 

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Leupold makes a strong one piece base that work with Leupold or Burris dovetail rings. Warn also makes a one piece mount that is strong as well and marketed under the T/C name. Quality rings are vital...they are a big link in the chain, don't skimp. I may offend a few people but see thru rings suck! First of all, they lift the scope to far from the bore, forcing you to lift your head off the stock....it's no wonder folks that use these types of rings have difficulty using scopes in the field. 9 out of 10 folks I see having trouble at the range are using see thru rings. The quality of every set of see thru rings I have ever seen is poor at best.....why invest in quality glass and then skimp on rings.....makes no sense to me.
Good glass rarely fails in the field these days. Buy a good scope and learn to use it and you'll have no worries.
If using open sites is important to you, then skip the scope and buy a nice peep site....a better option than buying cheap rings and a cheap scope.
 

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JAS said:
Furthermore, scopes often dont pick up those little 1 inch saplings as well as open sights/open eyes can. Many of deer have been missed this way. Actually, when you hear about somebody missing a super close deer, 90% of the time, you will find a sapling with a hole in it that the scope did not/could not focus on.

JAS
If you can't pick up saplings with your scope that your naked eye can, then you need to adjust the focus on your scope, or if that doesn't help, throw it away and upgrade today. There is no way that your eye will pick up a 1" sapling at 50 yards that your scope cannot pick up unless you are using the wrong type of scope for the task at hand.
 

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Buy a quality brand scope and it should last as long as your gun. Don't scrimp on scope costs, IMO the scope is more important than the claiber and brand of the gun. See thru mounts are purely preference, I hunted 25 years with them - never used them one, so these days I set up my rifles with standard mounts. The eye alignment is slightly faster, although with practice either become pretty much reflex.
 

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Swamp Monster said:
If you can't pick up saplings with your scope that your naked eye can, then you need to adjust the focus on your scope, or if that doesn't help, throw it away and upgrade today. There is no way that your eye will pick up a 1" sapling at 50 yards that your scope cannot pick up unless you are using the wrong type of scope for the task at hand.
Swamp,

Point well taken. I was taliking about those super close shots. <30 yards. The deer at 25-30 will be crystal. The sapling at 5 yards will be a bloby blur and may give a false sense of security as far as a shot. We could go around and around on this. It is just a matter of personal preference. My eyes are good. So when the deer is close, I go for the open sights, no question. Plus I can remain focused on the deer to see what type of immediate reaction there is on the shot. Hopefully, he just flops. Thats the type of tracking job I like.;)
 

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JAS said:
Point well taken. I was taliking about those super close shots. <30 yards. The deer at 25-30 will be crystal. The sapling at 5 yards will be a bloby blur and may give a false sense of security as far as a shot.
This is true. I watched a guy put a bullet hole thru the hood of his truck, just missing his radiater and exiting thru the grill because he just looked thru the scope and did not realize how low the actual bore of the rifle was pointing! Was shooting at a backstop down hill from where we were parked!! Funny stuff believe me! So yeah and spitting distance ranges, you may run into a problem. Thats why I like most of my hunting guns where scopes that start out at 1.5x or 2x and I keep them their while hunting.
 

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I started out with just a regular mount on my Omega but switched to the see thru when I discovered that with a glove on it was difficult to cock the hammer. Not much room under the scope to get your gloved thumb in between the scope and hammer. I always had a see thru on my shotgun when I hunted deer with it but never used them. With 2 years of hunting with my Omega I have never used them either, but it nice to know they are there if I ever need them.

I too will never set foot in a GM store. They flat out lied to me about getting a rifle from another store. Called every week for about 3 week to check on it, they said it would take some time for the store transfer and they would call when it came in. I'm still waiting for the call and that was 4 years ago. I didn't know it was such a big deal to tranfer a gun from the Traverse City to the Lansing store.
 

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I was never a fan of the see thru mounts either but I liked the fiber optic open sights they put on the omega so I bought them and put a Bushell Banner scope on it. I thought I would probably never use the open sights but boy was I wrong. On the last weekend of ML season this year I had a nice 10 point come out in front of my blind in a small shooting lane. Because it was real damp and cold when I stuck my gun out the window and look through the scope I couldn't see a thing. I went down to the open sights and got him just before he was about to take off. Without the see thru mounts I would have missed out on the opportunity to harvest the 10 point. Its always good to have plan B!:)
 

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tmanmi said:
I started out with just a regular mount on my Omega but switched to the see thru when I discovered that with a glove on it was difficult to cock the hammer. Not much room under the scope to get your gloved thumb in between the scope and hammer. I always had a see thru on my shotgun when I hunted deer with it but never used them. With 2 years of hunting with my Omega I have never used them either, but it nice to know they are there if I ever need them.
Would have been alot easier to just buy a hammer spur made for that exact reason and keep your scope mounted low. The hammer spurs cost about $15 or less.
 
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