Michigan Sportsman Forum banner

Natural Forage and Cover

88788 Views 331 Replies 57 Participants Last post by  Neal
Food plots are fun and helpful in attracting and holding whitetails but sometimes I get concerned that landowners put to much emphasis on them and not enough on the natural sources of food and cover that whitetails really rely on.

If you have timber or even brush...it can be improved and if you need trees and screens they can be planted and if you need cost share assistance it is usually available.

Managing our land for whitetails and wildlife in general covers a broad spectrum of things of which food sources from crops are only a small piece of the pie.

Right now is the perfect time to start inquiring about cost share assistance and I have a complete list of federal, state and private source of cost share programs that I would urge you to be aware of.

Conservation Cost Share Programs

Contact your NRCS office or private lands biologist and find out what programs are available because $$'s are tight these days and the supply is not unlimited.

Planting trees and shrubs is something I have been doing for nearly 50 years and I am passionate about this subject. At my age I will most likely never see the fruits of some of my labors but I do it anyway because I see the results of what others before me have accomplished.

The 80 year old white pines on my place are full of turkeys every night and when I hear the winds softly blowing through them I imagine the people who planted them years ago and silently thank them.

I concentrate mostly on mast production and especially on hybrid oaks and chestnuts in my hardwood plantings and many different varieties of soft mast producing shrubs that provide screens, travel corridors as well as food sources for wildlife large and small.

If you have an interest in planting trees next spring regardless if it is a 1/2 dozen or 10,000 seedlings take a look at my informational threads that will help you better decide which trees, the right herbicides and other planting information might be best for you.

Tree Planting

This thread is longer but covers everything including direct seeding of acorns and ideas to start your own seedlings from top producing trees in your area.

Tree Planting 101

Those threads include a list of some great nurseries and sources of all kinds of supplies and herbicides as well regardless if you plant by hand...



or with a tree planter...




I have hundreds of pictures that make it interesting and helpful as well.

Most likely you have timber, woodlots or forest on your property and managing it properly can be both profitable and help you attract and hold whitetails at the same time.

Begin by truly understanding what Timber Stand Improvement (TSI) means and learn to identify the trees on your property. Utilize your area forester and learn all you can before cranking up the chainsaw!

TSI is primarly releasing crop trees by killing cull trees close to them and doing so also allows oak seedlings to grow and replace shade tolerant less desirable species.

I put together these threads to help everyone understand how to better manage their own timber and get paid to do it!

Learn TSI

Understanding Timber Stand Improvent



Once you have learned to properly identify your trees then your in a position to decide where to create bedding areas or which trees to edgefeather.

Hinge cutting is a great way to create both cover and new browse at the same time and opening up small areas will increase both bedding and feeding areas.

All of these things make your property more attractive then the neighbors and you can see not only mine but others who have shared their successful work in my thread on edgefeathering.

Edge Feathering and Bedding Areas

A number of knowledgeable landowners share their own pictures and experiences in these threads to provide a great deal of information to landowners eager to learn how to improve thier property.

Ideas that share how to funnel deer, which trees produce the sweetest acorns the quickest, what shrubs provide the best screens the soonest and what timber is valuable and which is not are all in those threads.

Plant food plots but don't forget your greatest natural assets...your trees! :)
See less See more
3
Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 80 of 332 Posts
bdltree mentions red cedars often, why is that i rarely read of anyone else on the forum planting these? seems like they are a good tree that wont get too overgrown, just wondering what the drawback may be.
bdltree mentions red cedars often, why is that i rarely read of anyone else on the forum planting these? seems like they are a good tree that wont get too overgrown, just wondering what the drawback may be.
Red cedars seem to love the heavy clay ground here in Iowa although they may do well on lighter soils. I think folks in MI and WI are just used to planting norway and white spruce and both of those do well on light sandy soils.

Deer love to use the red cedar cover here but they certainly would use other conifers if available. In my area deer rarely touch a red cedar for any reason (rubbing or browse) but plant a spruce or pine and they will kill it in short order...don't ask me how I know...:rolleyes:

RC are just one option and for me have proven to be the best one but that doesn't mean they are right for everyone...;)
See less See more
There are several train's of thought on creating individual beds for deer that include "tying" trees down to create over head cover, attempting to create "buck" and "doe" beds. The controversy often leads to arguments and name bashing which is completely counterproductive to helping others learn how to enhance their habitat.


Argument and name bashing are not good, and I hope they do not come into this thread. But I must respond to something you said:

Suffice it to say that after years of hinging trees I have inadvertently created all types of "overhead' cover from 3-4' to 10-15' above the ground but thus far I have not found deer using those types of situations.
Many other people do get deer to lay under overhead cover, but not through "inadvertent" activities. You actually have to apply a series of properly performed, well thought out techniques to do it successfully. I have enormous amounts of bedding activity underneath the overhead cover of hinged trees, and have seen the same on numerous other properties. And that ain't bragging because I didn't figure out how to do it and probably never would have by just cutting trees on my own. I paid to find out how to do it from someone who spent about 20 years figuring out how to do it successfully. And it works. You can not only get them to lay under the cover, but you can get them to lay facing in whatever direction you choose. And you can decide whether it will be a buck using it or a doe family.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I want folks to know that even though you haven't been successful getting deer to lay under overhead cover that you created, they can, and so can you, using apporpirate techniques.
See less See more
Argument and name bashing are not good, and I hope they do not come into this thread. But I must respond to something you said:



Many other people do get deer to lay under overhead cover, but not through "inadvertent" activities. You actually have to apply a series of properly performed, well thought out techniques to do it successfully. I have enormous amounts of bedding activity underneath the overhead cover of hinged trees, and have seen the same on numerous other properties. And that ain't bragging because I didn't figure out how to do it and probably never would have by just cutting trees on my own. I paid to find out how to do it from someone who spent about 20 years figuring out how to do it successfully. And it works. You can not only get them to lay under the cover, but you can get them to lay facing in whatever direction you choose. And you can decide whether it will be a buck using it or a doe family.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I want folks to know that even though you haven't been successful getting deer to lay under overhead cover that you created, they can, and so can you, using apporpirate techniques.
Lets see some pics If its working like you say. I'm not exactly saying that there is no truth to making a Buck bed but I'm more of a believer in making an all around mess with good exits and other things that are crutial to deer beds an letting him pic where he calls home, reguardless if there is a boss living on your land and he decides he wants to lay claim to a spot he's gonna do it weather its a doe bedding area or one of your "famed" Buck beds...
Posted via Mobile Device
See less See more
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject of overhead cover Jim...:)

On a slightly different subject of trail manipulation here's some pics of a trail that now is funneling deer into another runway, both within 25 yards of my stand.

Here you can see how the runway used to veer to the right but I used a natural crossing, the ravine and hinge cutting to funnel deer to the left and by my stand.



This picture is standing opposite of the first showing hinge cuts that kept deer from circling out and around and just encourages them to use the natural ravine crossing.



The shadows and sunlight make it a little difficult to see the runway here but it just shows the hinge cuts blocking the old runway.



Keep in mind I did not attempt to create new runways but just observed natural movement and "bottled" up that movement to combine several runways into one as they passed by my stand.

The stand of course was placed there in the first place because of a natural convergence of runways but some movement was beyond my "comfort zone" with my bow.

Funnels are deadly during the rut when bucks are traveling cross country or between bedding areas and well thought out funnels are the reason I do not worry about scrapes. Mature bucks seldom use them in daylight hours but they will travel thru this funnels at all hours of the day.

Each landowner has preferred hunting tactics and methods and so may or may not be able to adapt some of these ideas to your own property.

As always they are just options that may plant a seed of opportunity to enhance your habitat and hunting on your property...;)

Hinging for bedding, browse and bottlenecks
See less See more
3
Observation is how we learn and this is the time of year to be out there observing and learning about whitetail habitat. Where DO they bed and why? Individual beds may or may not have been used by a buck but overall hiking our land can yield clues and ideas to what they will and will not utilize for bedding.

Another thing to note is that if deer are unmolested then they may not require as thick of habitat as those that endure constant harassment and those type of things vary widely among landowners.

The following are more pictures of recent beds on my own land and many are in semi-open areas, all on south or east facing ridges. All with cover at their back, sun warming them and not necessarily an extremely thick type of habitat but rather they are infrequently bothered by anyone.

While there is much hoopla about creating a "buck bed" from time to time, actual proof that it has been used by a buck would be nearly impossible unless one has a trail cam focused on the bed. I frequently notice lone does bedded alone so a single bed does not signify for certain that it is being used by a buck.



















These deer did have thicker cover available and almost always chose some brushy type cover around them verus wide open timber but topography plays a huge part in where they choose to bed.

Screening cover around the timber, around the entire property then becomes extremely important so that deer feel safe and comfortable within the their "fortress" so to speak.

Enjoy a late winter hike on a sunny day and find out what habitat is being used or unused and why? If they are not bedding on your land are they coming there to feed and returning to a neighboring bedding area...is so what is different.

Use Google Earth or some such to "see" what the neighbors have that you don't and sometimes it may just be a larger more protective atmosphere with the same habitat.... ;)
See less See more
9
dbletree while I think your photos are great and you have lots of great information about habitat and improvement, I have a few comments about some of your statements.

Another thing to note is that if deer are unmolested then they may not require as thick of habitat as those that endure constant harassment and those type of things vary widely among landowners.
This is a critical thing to point out. This time of year is OK for figuring out how deer like to bed when it is cold, there is snow on the ground, and food is less available, but it is not a good time of year to figure out where the deer are going to be bedding during hunting season. There are bedding areas on my property right now that are in spots that are virtually never used by deer in hunting season.


While there is much hoopla about creating a "buck bed" from time to time, actual proof that it has been used by a buck would be nearly impossible unless one has a trail cam focused on the bed. I frequently notice lone does bedded alone so a single bed does not signify for certain that it is being used by a buck.
You cannot always be certain that an individual bed is a buck bed. But if there are massive tracks leading to it, it is used regularly during hunting season by a lone deer when there is great pressure (you can tell that by looking at how much hair is matted in the area at the end of the season), it smells like the Detroit Lions locker room after a game, is in an isolated area of cover, has massive sized scat (grown-up males crap big) a short distance away on the trail in and out, has nearby rubs, (choose any two of the above:lol:) you can deduce that it is a buck bed. Moreover, you can observe the make-up of the bed and its location and deduce how to make one yourself that a buck might want to occupy (only about 50% of the beds I make are occupied by deer on at least an occasional basis). Although does may occasionally bed alone they are very social creatures and prefer to have company. If they are bedding alone it is probably during the rut and they got separated from their family by buck activity, and it is probably not something they would do repeatedly day after day.

On top of all that, I know a number of people who have cut visual lanes to well-used buck beds and observe the bucks in their beds during hunting hours. These guys feel having a camera there is counter-productive to the buck using it during season so I do not recommend that approach. I have only had the experience on one occasion but last year on opening day of gun season observed a buck laying in a man-made bed 120 yards away on the ridge across a creek. It is not only not "impossible" to tell but it is pretty easy if you know what signs to look for.

Enjoy a late winter hike on a sunny day and find out what habitat is being used or unused and why? If they are not bedding on your land are they coming there to feed and returning to a neighboring bedding area...is so what is different.
Just realize that these deer are very possibly not going to be using those areas during hunting season if you are finding their spots now. This technique is great if you actually go in the first week after hunting season ends, because they may still be using their pressured bedding areas.

Use Google Earth or some such to "see" what the neighbors have that you don't and sometimes it may just be a larger more protective atmosphere with the same habitat.... ;)
Very good advice.
See less See more
dbltree, thanks for your posts. With the snow melting here, I am planning my strategy for habitat improvements for this year. Your posts are very informative. I have put hundreds of hours into food plots, but only a few in habitat improvements (not including planting over 2,000 red pine, white pine, norway spruce, and fruit trees).

With a few hours of work with a chainsaw, done properly of course, bedding and cover can be improved almost instantly. I am planning on using some of your advise very soon.

I do have a question:

On my property, I have about 10-12 acres of cedar swamp. It is becoming a spruce swamp, because the previous owner sold alot of cedar and the spruce took it's place.

I have some a few huge spruce mixed in with medium sized cedars. I was thinking of dropping one or two big spruce, then removing every second branch of the tree to create a "cubby" for the deer to bed. My question is "Would this be a really good idea in this situation or would it be better to drop a few smaller ones into an "X" pattern?"

I was surprised a few years ago in January when calling coyotes from a spot near a fallen spruce. About 8 deer let me get close (30 yards), call for coyotes for a half-hour then they all jumped up from about 30 feet away. They seemed to feel so secure there, that they only jumped up when I was really close.

Again, Thanks for the pics and habitat improvement ideas.

DEADCENTER
See less See more
bdltree mentions red cedars often, why is that i rarely read of anyone else on the forum planting these? Seems like they are a good tree that wont get too overgrown, just wondering what the drawback may be.
by no means an expert, but in that we don't have any red cedar trees, (that i've seen) growing naturally on ours, or on surrounding property, (i wonder around sometimes), i've been reluctant to plant them for risk of encouraging a cedar rust plague on all of our resident apple trees. I would love to start some from all the positive press they've been getting. I felt that norways were a reasonable alternative though, without the risk of the cedar rust. Of course i also planted 25 douglas firs last spring and as it was pointed out to me recently, have completed the potential life cycle of cooley spruce gall on all of our existing blue spruce. I guess the moral of that story is think, research and read your forums, before you make any drastic changes or purchases. More than likely somebody here has already been there, done that...
Kirk out.
See less See more
I have some a few huge spruce mixed in with medium sized cedars. I was thinking of dropping one or two big spruce, then removing every second branch of the tree to create a "cubby" for the deer to bed. My question is "Would this be a really good idea in this situation or would it be better to drop a few smaller ones into an "X" pattern?"
I have not worked with spruce but your idea may indeed work well and perhaps others may have thoughts on working with conifers in this manner also.

a camera there is counter-productive
A little Scoutguard or Bushnell will last nearly a year with lithium batteries and easily take 4000-6000 pics...mounted with a pivotal cam mount they can easily be kept up out view of deer...if one really would like to know...the truth with out bothering the area.

I don't worry about making a bed...I make the bedroom and put the cams in the "doorways"...works well but heck, whatever a landowner feels will work best for them is what they oughta go with.

I started a new thread on Oak Savanna and how to build or restore one and many of you may be interested in following along as I restore mine.

Oak Savanna

There is something to learn from this for everyone regardless if you have an interest in savannas themselves as it involves both oaks, native grass and forbs, restoring remnant prairie, burning and a host of other habitat improvment ideas.

I'll post a few pics here now and then but in the meantine the thread has tons of links with awesome pictures and info!

See less See more
Few pics from my oak savanna restoration project that is really an oak/prairie restoration and the two make an awesome combination of cover and food.

First step involves completely clearing the "junk trees" which is a whole lot more work then simply hinge cutting...:SHOCKED:



Here's a young open grown savanna burr oak...notice the lower limb growth



and a few that are being released as I clear cut the junk...I'll have to cull some that are too close to each other later. These are tall and straight as they competed with other trees to reach sunlight but now will grow faster and produce acorns quicker.



Remnant prairie growing along the edge



I think the prairie aspect of this will prove interesting to many even if the oak savanna is not simply because of restoring it and how a wild native prairie mainfests itself.

Gregg from the USFWS agreed that frost/dormant seeding is the natural way to seed all native grass and wildflowers since it's been spread that way for eons. He prefers not to have to tear anything up or disturb the soil and use burning and if necesary broadcasting of native seeds in late winter to re-establish prairie in the oak savanna.

Looking forward to spring now! :cool:
See less See more
4
dbltree;

I am in the process of freeing up a lot of oaks in a new piece I acquired that had about 10-11 acres of woods. I have removed about 40 logs of walnut, ash and maple. The rest of the maples and ashes have been or will be sent sideways (virtually all of them, unless they are needed for a stand setup) with many of the largest ones (12-30 inch diameter) of course meeting their demise in the cutting. A few good straight cherries and walnuts will be left standing, but most crooked ones will be hinge cut, some beach have been left standing but many have been cut because they take up so much canopy.

All the uncrowded oaks will be left standing. They are all straight and tall with small crowns at the top because of the density of trees that was around them. Although I am not aiming for an oak savanna, rather a mixed woods with dense horizontal understory, populated mostly my mature oaks and beach, what can I expect of the oaks? Will some of the more mature ones branch out or will they just develop at the current crown height? I am sure some of the younger ones will be able to branch out now but I am wondering more about the mature ones.
See less See more
Will some of the more mature ones branch out or will they just develop at the current crown height?
I don't think you'll see much branching other then the at the current crown height Jim, younger trees will gladly "stretch" out but older trees I would expect them to just "reach for the sky"...

This is why we plant hardwood seedlings at 600 trees per acre and then eventually thin them to 50-100 trees per acre. They grow tall and straight as they compete for sunlight and little or no lower branching occurs.

I often add conifer trainers for the same purpose and then they can be removed after having served their purpose. Oak veneer is highly valued and "knots" from branching can leave them sometimes useless for veneer and they end up being sold for saw logs.

Foresters usually have a very different opinion or advice on planting or managing hardwood tree plantings for this reason as they are trained to key in on timber first and foremost.

Getting slightly off the subject except that once trees get any size to them, they can be thinned without fear of branching. If branching is preferred as with savanna oaks they are better off released when very small.

Be interesting to follow progress of your project and mine and see how the trees react...:)
See less See more
Some of you may be interested in learning how to start your own acorns using the Rootmaker system.





I started acorns that have been stored in the fridge all winter





Great way to start your own acorns or purchase hybrid oak acorns for a fraction of the cost of seedlings.

Skip to the last page of my tree planting thread and follow along this spring...:cool:

All about Tree Planting

Some will be moved up to larger rootmaker systems to get more air pruning to achieve even more rapid growth....something that comes in handy when we're trying to get from an acorn to a mast producing tree as quickly as possible...;)
See less See more
4
Well I'm placing my first order for cuttings from Big Rock Trees! Something new for me but I can see where not having to fight with a root system at planting will make the job easier. I ordered the rooting hormone and more Rootmaker cells from BRT's as well along with a really neat planting auger for my cordless drill! Sweet! :cool:

The cuttings are mostly dogwoods and ninebark type shrubs for lowland plantings and if your interested don't wait much longer to order because John is running low or out of some cuttings.

Big Rock Trees

Some of my acorns and chestnuts are sprouting already in the rootmaker cells!

Timburr Chestnut from Oikos Tree Crops



Sargent and Bimunders hybrid oaks from Oikos Tree Crops



Pretty neat watching them take off and a very inexpensive way to start your own oak seedlings. The Rootmaker cells are inexpensive from Big Rock trees and you can pick up and store your own acorns in the fall or try some hybrids from Oikos or Sheffield's.

Sheffield’s Seed Company

Oikos Tree Crops

It's also a lot of fun to swap and trade acorns with other landowners in the fall, choosing from prolific consistant mast producing trees that one may also observe heavy feeding activity that indicates sweet low tannin acorns. :)
See less See more
2
After dropping a tree on my head the other day (good thing it's hard!) I bought my son and I helmets!



I also tried to cut my leg in half so I'm looking at chaps...anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

Elvex® ProChaps™ Chain Saw Chaps



Sawbuck Four-Ply Chain Saw Chaps



Kinda like this too...:cool:

Elvex® ProGuard Loggers Caps



Curious what others have used if anything? One is kevlar and the other is meant to stop a running blade by "clogging" it so to speak...
See less See more
4
Well, I just bought a simple little small Stihl MS-180. My dad has cut a lot of firewood in his life and when i told him that i got a saw and was thinking about getting a helmet and chaps he told me about a close call he had one time. I think about all the experience he has and on his recommendation i ordered a pair.

Now, i had a $100 gift card but I figured i wanted something good so i ordered these. Not cheap but heavy duty and just seemed a bit more secure with the additional leg straps, the reviews i read about others people complained about just not fitting well. So these have showed up i just havent had time to try them out yet.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395705_200395705

Then to protect my noggin I bought one of these. My dad and grandfather have the same one and love them so i got one as well. Used it the other day when i was trying out my new saw trimming some trees around the house. Works great.

See less See more
Thanks for the link Ed! I'm going to order the kevlar chaps...from what I hear they have a heard time sewing up a chainsaw cut...:SHOCKED:

I ordered Ninebark, Redosier Dogwood, Silky Dogwood, Yellow Twig Dogwood and California Privet from Big Rock Trees and would have ordered some Arrowood but I fooled around and waited to long...:rolleyes: ...next year! :)

I also ordered Nannyberry, Wild Plum, Nanking Cherry and my red cedars from our State Forest Nursery in Ames Iowa.

The cuttings from John will be mostly low ground plantings while the others along with the cedars will be on higher ground and a combination of both screening and bedding.

I have pictures of most of these shrubs in my thread on tree planting except for a few new ones from Big Rock Trees...looking forward to adding pics of those!

All about Tree Planting

I'll spray a combination of glyphosate, simazine and crop oil ahead of my plantings and add Oust to the red cedars for longer control.

Can't wait to get started planting in a few weeks! :cool:
See less See more
A friend of mine owns a farm that lays up against land owned by two well known TV hunting celebrities and it stands to reason that they would choose the land and type of habitat they did...for a reason.

To the extent that I can tell (peering over the fence) they have done little or no habitat work but rather chose the land for the type of natural habitat on it.

This is what lies across the fence....



Brush...thick brush and red cedars cover a great deal of their property...simple as that.

The open land on their farm is all being cropped and there are no NWSG plantings.

I share this simply because they could have any land they wished but they chose areas of brush and timber that was already a natural sanctuary.

I love NWSG and it's perfect for large income producing fields (such as CRP) but you will be hard pressed to get the same results from NWSG that you will from brushy areas such as one creates with shrubs and conifers....;)

Some thoughts on bedding in this thread: Hinging thread
See less See more
When doing a first time timber burn with a heavy fuel load remember to blow away debris from around the big old savanna oaks.



I walked a friends property the other day and an accidental fire had killed several of his big oaks so just be cautious the first time. ;)

See less See more
2
61 - 80 of 332 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top