Many of you seem to be planting chicory and brassicas with your clover, and I have a question. I have to mow my 2 and 3 acre clover plots several times a season to keep down the weeds. How do you keep the rape etc. if you mow? My clover recovers quickly from a mowing down to 2", but I would think it would make toast out of brassicas. What's the scoop, and how are you controlling weeds if you don't mow your clover? Many thanks.
Mowing clover
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I have not actually planted the brassisca/clover mix yet, but as I understand it it would work this way. The clover is perennial, so it would re-grow each year on its own. The brassiscas are annual and are re-planted late each summer or early each fall by broadcasting them into the clover field. Therefore you could mow your clover as many times as you wanted before you broadcast the brassiscas that late summer/fall of each year. The following spring the brassicas you planted the year before would be gone and you could go ahead and mow your clover again.
Like I said I havent actually done this yet, but I have done the research and spoken with the people at Bio-Logic
Like I said I havent actually done this yet, but I have done the research and spoken with the people at Bio-Logic
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FWIW, I've now had 5 yrs of experience with clover plots. I've gone to mowing the clover less frequently than before, and now do so only twice per season, with the second mowing sometime during September, coinciding with my last fertilization.
I believe there is some benefit to getting the clover plants to more-or-less complete their life cycle, by flowering and going to seed, and this is best facilitated by fewer mowings. I didn't come up with this on my own, a wise man explained it to me.
Two mowings seems to be sufficient to control weeds. However, my bigger enemy is invading cool-season grasses; as anyone with a lawn knows, mowing and fertilizing is a practice that favors the grasses.
Incidentally, some weeds ("forbs") are not necessarily bad in your clover plot, particularly if you stay with your fertilization program. One particular forb that appears on my farm, commonly known as Winter Cress, is a notably preferred deer food, besting even food plot plants at certain times of the year. Certain invading wildflowers are also aggressively browsed. Remember, deer have been enjoying forbs for a lot longer than they have the plants in our food plots, or even agricultural crops.
I've sometimes read that weeds/forbs are categorically low in nutritive value and palatability to deer, even from well-recognized sources. Absolutely, positively untrue.
If you have any "old field" areas on your property, and have the inclination, you can experiment to identify deer preferences of forbs. Mow some spots, to encourage new growth. If the mowed spots are loaded with grasses, spray with some Roundup (which is very effective on cool-season grasses), and see observe what kinds of forbs pop up. Then pay attention to the plants, and identify the ones that deer appear to be feeding on, at various times during the year (their preferences change throughout the year, influenced by plant maturity and the physical needs of deer). You might even soil test and fertilize your test area, which is likely to spark the deer's interest.
An aside on the benefits of soil testing and regular fertilization - I have a half-acre site in which I've now had a variety plots planted, and always fertilized it 1-2 times per year. In late summer 2002, I sprayed Roundup to the plot, in anticipation of a fall planting, which never materialized because of scheduling conflicts. The plot sprouted up with cool-season grasses and a variety of forbs. Deer were seen regularly in this plot throughout that hunting season; in fact, believe it or not, I believe that site got more attention from deer that year than it did this year, when it was full of a lush plot of Buck Forage Oats.
Incidentally, the aforementioned information about forbs is something you'll never read about in any literature from the Whitetail Institute or Mossy Oak/Biologic!
I believe there is some benefit to getting the clover plants to more-or-less complete their life cycle, by flowering and going to seed, and this is best facilitated by fewer mowings. I didn't come up with this on my own, a wise man explained it to me.
Two mowings seems to be sufficient to control weeds. However, my bigger enemy is invading cool-season grasses; as anyone with a lawn knows, mowing and fertilizing is a practice that favors the grasses.
Incidentally, some weeds ("forbs") are not necessarily bad in your clover plot, particularly if you stay with your fertilization program. One particular forb that appears on my farm, commonly known as Winter Cress, is a notably preferred deer food, besting even food plot plants at certain times of the year. Certain invading wildflowers are also aggressively browsed. Remember, deer have been enjoying forbs for a lot longer than they have the plants in our food plots, or even agricultural crops.
I've sometimes read that weeds/forbs are categorically low in nutritive value and palatability to deer, even from well-recognized sources. Absolutely, positively untrue.
If you have any "old field" areas on your property, and have the inclination, you can experiment to identify deer preferences of forbs. Mow some spots, to encourage new growth. If the mowed spots are loaded with grasses, spray with some Roundup (which is very effective on cool-season grasses), and see observe what kinds of forbs pop up. Then pay attention to the plants, and identify the ones that deer appear to be feeding on, at various times during the year (their preferences change throughout the year, influenced by plant maturity and the physical needs of deer). You might even soil test and fertilize your test area, which is likely to spark the deer's interest.
An aside on the benefits of soil testing and regular fertilization - I have a half-acre site in which I've now had a variety plots planted, and always fertilized it 1-2 times per year. In late summer 2002, I sprayed Roundup to the plot, in anticipation of a fall planting, which never materialized because of scheduling conflicts. The plot sprouted up with cool-season grasses and a variety of forbs. Deer were seen regularly in this plot throughout that hunting season; in fact, believe it or not, I believe that site got more attention from deer that year than it did this year, when it was full of a lush plot of Buck Forage Oats.
Incidentally, the aforementioned information about forbs is something you'll never read about in any literature from the Whitetail Institute or Mossy Oak/Biologic!
Thanks for the suggestions and pearls. My problem is that I fertilize with 0-24-24 to promote the clover and still have a TOUGH time keeping the competing grasses from getting higher than the clover. I don't want to add spraying to my already compressed schedule, and I wonder about the wisdom of adulterating my prize clover fields with things, other than brassicas, which cannot be mowed. I lime to keep the pH in the 6.7 range, but I am running out of time to do what should be done. In one evening (opening day of gun season) we had 40+ does and bucks up to 6 pts at dark in the 2 clover plots of 7 acres,total. This means we are doing something right(of course the wall hangers came in after solid dark), but now they have nothing to eat. I am thinking of making a 30' row around the fields to plant the late season goodies. You people have the experience I am drawing on, so, I again appreciate your input.
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Wow, Tomas, can you get 0-24-24 in bags? I have been unable to find any bagged fertilizer with zero nitrogen anywhere, and I have a couple good applications for such stuff. I've checked everywhere in Oakland, Livingston, Washtenaw, Monroe, Lenawee, Jackson, or Hillsdale counties.
Clovers, while being a great all-around food plot, ain't all that hot once you get to December. Brassicas are probably a good bet for you, but don't count on the deer eating them much in year 1 in farm country. If they do, consider it a bonus.
At some point, if you want to control grasses in your clover plots(I'm always battling it myself), you're going to have to spray. Poast or Vantage will do the job. Also Roundup, if done according to Ed Spin's instructions - just don't spray it after mid-May.
Clovers, while being a great all-around food plot, ain't all that hot once you get to December. Brassicas are probably a good bet for you, but don't count on the deer eating them much in year 1 in farm country. If they do, consider it a bonus.
At some point, if you want to control grasses in your clover plots(I'm always battling it myself), you're going to have to spray. Poast or Vantage will do the job. Also Roundup, if done according to Ed Spin's instructions - just don't spray it after mid-May.
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I sounds as if you are somewhat pressed for time but one spring spraying of Poast or Vantage is worth the time and effort. If you let the grasses go it will choke out the clover. Grasses also thrives on mowing but annual weeds are set back to where clover can out compete them.
One annual spraying of grass specific herbicide is a whole lot less time consuming than replanting your plots. Give it a try, I'm sure you will as impressed with the results.
I only seed in brassica when the plot is first established which is late July or August so the first year mowing is not required. After that I should get 3-5 years before replanting is required. I mow in late May or early June and then again about the first of August.
One annual spraying of grass specific herbicide is a whole lot less time consuming than replanting your plots. Give it a try, I'm sure you will as impressed with the results.
I only seed in brassica when the plot is first established which is late July or August so the first year mowing is not required. After that I should get 3-5 years before replanting is required. I mow in late May or early June and then again about the first of August.
I'll darn sure make time to spray this Spring, as I have too nice a stand of clover to let it go or replant. I have always planted my clover in late April, but I may try a late summer planting this year and put some brassicas in the same plot. Bought a 10' cultipacker yesterday, so I'm raring to go. Thanks again for the food for thought. Tom
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OK, I'll ask the wise men on this forum. I'm also having problems with grasses invading my carefully tended clover plots.
When's the best time to spray Proast/Vantage to control these grasses? Do you have to spray every year?
Natty B.
When's the best time to spray Proast/Vantage to control these grasses? Do you have to spray every year?
Natty B.
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Follow-up question to Tomas'...
When to frost seed clover into plot? (located in SW Mich)
thanks,
When to frost seed clover into plot? (located in SW Mich)
thanks,
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Last year, I sprayed Poast on my clover in late spring. It killed lots of grasses but the late summer grasses showed up on schedule. This year, I'll spray later in the summer to control the late season grasses. My clover plot is 10 years old and it's as good as ever. Last weekend, several deer were still feeding in the clover in the afternoons.
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I spray Poast in the spring when the grasses are greening up and there is 3"-4" of new grass growth. Don't expect to see the grasses die right away, Poast takes a while to kill but it makes the grass stop growing within a week. It starts to turn color in 3 weeks and by 4 weeks you'll know where you missed when you sprayed. By then you probably need to mow the whole clover plot.
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I sprayed mine in late may, poast targets grasses that are no longer than 9". Like Luv said, I didn't notice it killing my grasses until late June and they were all dead! You'll definetly know where you missed too! LOL! From now on I am going to use some Bullseye to see where I miss as I spray.
I start frost seeding my SW MI plots in late Feb., early March.
Poast will not harm your legume seedlings.
I start frost seeding my SW MI plots in late Feb., early March.
Poast will not harm your legume seedlings.
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