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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What if Michigan (the whole state) went shotgun only, no rifles. This is bound to ruffle a few feathers. What do you think?
 

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Other than creating a lot of chaos, what would the purpose be? Also, the new Winchester 12 ga slug, when shot thru a rifled barrel, has 1500 ft. lbs. of retained energy at 200 yds, which puts it close to a 30:06 with a 150 gr. bullet (The new Hornady slug is not far behind). So you would have to eliminate rifled barrels and/or certain slugs in shotguns.
 

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Don't know about that whole state ideal, but shotguns come along way in the last few years. I shot a big narly spike buck at 120+ yards Nov.16 with a Mossberg 500, 12 gauge,3inch mag rem. copper sabot. Rifled barrel, ported and scoped 3x9.
Shotguns rock!!
 

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Bwiltse is correct. I didn't know how accurate and powerful a shotgun could be until I started hunting with a group in the shotgun only zone.

Newer black powder rifles aren't too far behind either.

 
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I don't like the sounds of that!Big time don't like the sounds of that!Its just one more restriction that we don't need .......Yet.Especially up here! Know what the heck your shooting at, know whats behind the target,execute a safe shot.I just can't imagine shelving the old .243.Suppose I would have to use a shotgun on Yotes Too?
 

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Big_Jim, where you smoking a crack pipe when you made this post, Come on now, shotguns are for the Southern Troll folks. You know they can't be trusted with a High Power :D.. Yoda
 

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Grouse Hunter, you hit the nail on the head. It would save a few bucks even with the new advancements in slug technology. If you look at Ohio and Illinois they both produce bigger bucks than we do and they only allow shotguns statewide as part of there QDM. There are other reasons that these two states produce bigger bucks than us but having a shotgun only gun season helps. I can’t imagine it ever happening in Northern Michigan but at least we have it here in Southern Michigan and it saves some deer.

Tim
 

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Think about how much revenue will be lost if that were to happen. A rifle costs a lot more than a shotgun. In most cases anyway...I know there are exceptions so no need to start listing them here. :) All the money lost from people no longer purchasing rifles/accessories/ammo would hit store owners in their pockets pretty hard. Right now, those store owners take advantage of BOTH rifle and shotgun hunters....they won't like the change.

At first the stores will benefit when all the rifle hunters have to switch to shotguns, but there will be a greater loss overall.

Personally.....I hunt deer with my bow so it won't matter much to me.

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DuckMan
 

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What prompted him to ask this in the
first place?

Simple: Its called 'instigating'. :)

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BTW: I'm a big proponent of a law
advocating that folks hunt, fish, and
snowmobiling in the repective Peninsula
they live in. I think it should be law
that the LP be shotgun-only, have
no-baiting laws, and absolutely no deer
blinds. You trolls can still bowhunt
but kiss your compounds goodbye and say
"Hello" to recurves. Muzzleloaders?
O.K. but no more in-lines and definately
no scopes! I know this stings but its
for your guys own good: I want you to
fully enjoy your deer hunting so you
can experience a true and challenging
hunt. You guys keep falling from your
treestands, too.... and accidentally
shooting yourselves while hoisting-up
loaded weapons, so we need to ban the LP
from hunting in trees altogether. As
far as blinds: A 5-gallon bucket and a
hot-pad will do you guys just fine.
Everyone will be more attuned to their
surroundings that way. And too many of
you folks below the bridge still take
'sound-shots'... so EVERYONE down there
needs to wear full-body orange:
waterfowl, turkey, and bowhunters
included! No excuses!

I don't feel you need barbs on your
hooks, and we need to close walleye
season in the LP Feb. 1st. Don't worry;
we'll reopen it May 15th..... maybe. Be
ready for slot limits! Lake St. Clair
and Saginaw Bay should be off-limits to
any and all ice fishing: Its just too
dangerous. And if you get do get caught
in a perilous situation, you guys will
have to reinburse the state for your ice
rescues.

Snowmobiles downstate shouldn't be sold
unless they're under 500cc. Your
speed-limit should be 45 mph and no
riding at night!

Lets see now, what else have I
missed....

:) :) :) :) :) :)

[This message has been edited by Eastern Yooper (edited 12-19-2000).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I knew this post would ruffle some feathers, but it is just something that my wife and I have talked about after hunting different areas of the rifle zone. I'm not really a proponant of this change, I also own rifles. Most of the deer killed are killed at close ranges. It's scary to see some of the weekend warriors with very high power rifles out there that will shoot at most anything. The past few years I have used a muzzleloader and a shotgun even in the rifle zone because I like them. I take out the rifle on occasion but not as often as I used too. A good point was made about Ohio and its larger bucks, something to think about. Its too bad that some people need to use a elephant gun to shoot a 100lb doe at 50 yds, another thing that maked hunters look bad.
 

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Hold on just a minute there Big Jim! You're talking about taking away my excuse for needing a new rifle. Let's not go there.

Ron
Detroit Area Chapter
Terra Haute Torque & Recoil Society.
 

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What is so unlikely here? Every year I see the hunting/no-hunting line move further and further north. If the population continues to expand this movement will inevitably move the shotgun/rifle borders. Over time, with expanding population, we are sure to see less hunting land available in Southern Michigan and shrinking of the rifle zone in the north. I believe that there are many populated states existing today that do not allow any rifle hunting already. Lets face it, I am ready to move north right now to get away from the population boom in southern Michigan. If a few hundred thousand follow me, so will the rifle/shotgun border. <----<<<
 

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Whoa!
The whole state?That would be monumentally stupid!Realize the following is just my opinion,and if I tick anybody off,It isn't because I have any person in particular in mind.
First,Buckshot in the hands of the ignorant hillbillys around here is responsible for a HUGE number of wounded deer.Not everyone understands the under 30Yds rule,and the morons bang away at deer like a flock of grackles,and wound countless deer in the process.They also gut shoot,butt shoot,and blow the legs off of deer,believing that they just have to point and shoot at a general area,and usually don't have a clue where their gun patterns in relation to the front bead.Buckshot needs to go.
Next,when it comes to slug guns,I would say that a large number of the hunters do NOT understand trajectory,and the fact that point of impact changes between brands of slug,and 2-3/4 to 3".They tend to sight in with the cheapest crap they can find and then buy one box of "The good stuff" for hunting.DUHHHH!To top it all off good slug guns are expensive compared to the cheapie scatterguns that kinda can be used for everything from rabbits and ducks to deer.
Most folks will be using the cheapies that aren't quite as accurate.
So now we have folks who read the outdoor rags that say 125yds is kosher with the brand X super slug,they have sighted in with another brand and length,and are shooting an "Economy" model combo gun that they have never tried to zero past 30yds.How many of these folks will pass on a nice deer at 90yds?
How the heck is this supposed to be good for deer or man?
At least with a 30/30 folks know to zero at 100yds "Cuz it's a rifle",and the majority know to zero and hunt with the same ammo.
Next we get into safety issues,and one of my biggest pet peeves.
Where is it written that a 12 ga slug hurts less than a 150 gr 30/30 bullet?
A fully stabilized 12 ga slug can carry FURTHER when launched at a 33 degree angle than a .50 caliber roundball,.22 rimfire,most TRADITIONAL revolver cartridges,
and the big heavy african cartridges.
If fired at a much lower angle like from a tree stand,the ground is gonna get hit.
Upon ricochet the heavy 12 ga slug will NOT disintegrate like a High velocity expanding rifle bullet.Likewise high velocity rifle bullets start to come apart when they hit brush,and centrifugal force continues to tear it into little pieces.Shotgun slugs just tumble and continue on an unintended vector.Currently it is illegal to use a 38-40,or 44-40 in a handgun for deer,yet it IS legal to use a .380,9mm,.38S&W,.38spl,.44 russian,and .44spl.All of which are just perfect for ticking off a renegade sparrow.
On the other hand in a single shot contender,
it IS legal to use .375Win,45-70,45-90,.444Marlin,.445 supermag,and if so inclined .577Tyranasaur.If the brilliant folks in the DNR headshed had a clue,why is it this way.Safety?Yeah right.
To make the lower shotgun only in the name of safety would be as stupid as enforcing helmets in the shower.
Stupid people will do stupid things,and lukewarm outdoors folks will continue to do ignorant things no matter what the restrictions are.How many warnings are on appliances yet folks find a way to lop off fingers,blow up houses,and electrocute themselves in the tub?
Why stifle the majority in the fear of negligent action by the few?
That's just plain socialist doctrine.
I however understand the current restrictions as an attempt to allow firearm deer hunting,and still try to have a margin of safety.It just isn't needed in sparcely populated areas like zones 2&3.
Just the view from this treestand.Pat
 

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Pat, did you ever consider writing a book.
I'm sure it would sell better that Pat McManus's stuff. :p
Oh, by the way. Ditto!! :)


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Mike
 

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HE HE HE HE....

I read and am humored by this post...and eastern UP, the last time i was on here you were "chilled out" you must have melted after awhile eh? hahahaha..... :)
 

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Big Jim, the reason OH doesn't allow rifles isn't QDM at all. Its because there are just too many people down here! Probably 75% of the state is far too populated to be hunting with a 30-06. The reason for the bigger bucks down here are basically two main reasons. A) Most of OH is private land with limited hunting preassure. B) There are an awful lot of people down here that are happy to get a deer, ANY deer and will fill a tag any legal way they can. MOST of my family included.





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Never Confuse having a career with having a life!
 

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Whew...Let's just ban hunting in the LP altogether so we can all go buy .300 mag. elephant guns and go up to the Eastern UP and go nuts taking shots at 500+yds to a mile. ( Just kidding!!)

I expected a little more respect on here.

Think about it...if theres more people (hunters) in the LP then they must spend more money on license fees and equipment/ammo. So we're footing the bill for more of our counterparts. I can tell you that I don't see much of my hunting monies spent to improve the hunting habitat in Berrien Co. LOL They (the government) might use it for fishing improvements, but I'm sure I've contributed to improvements in the UP over the years. Which is fine...cause we're all in this together. For each other and for the heritage of the hunt.

I've made a couple trips to rifle-land to hunt in the past, and I was truly frightened
when I couldn't tell if the shots I heard were 200yds. or 2 miles away. And some guy from "the city" wants to try out his new elephant gun that he's never shot before.
It's not my element, and I wasn't prepared to be there. Same thing happens down here in Allegan GMU , some "city boys" come over to hunt and feel like they're in the trenches at Iwo Jima. Don't go there if you're not ready for it. I will go rifle hunting "up north" when I'm confident that I'm ready. For my own sake as much as yours.

I'm no ballistics expert, but my Moss. 695 with Rem. Copper Solid Sabot's ( @ $2.00 per shot!)and 4x12 scope holds a group within 4" at 100+ yds. These are the only slugs I will use in this gun. After testing 10+ other brands, these were the only consistant rounds. I don't shoot cheap slugs. The gun wasn't all that expensive, but sometimes you don't have to spend a fortune to get good results.

I treat this shotgun like a rifle. Because for all intents & purposes it is. It is only used for whitetail for 2 wks. a year.

My point here is this: Hunting to me is doing the best you can with what you have to work with. Whether that's the gun,(method) ammo, habitat, local laws/rules, or whatever. I think limiting anyone in their pursuit of their hunting heritage hurts all of us.

Tell a guy in the rifle zone he can only use a shotgun, and he will go spend his time and money somewhere that he can use his rifle. Let's not erode the unity further.

Incidently, I have nothing against rifle hunters...I was just making a point. If you have the resources to use a rifle, then you should. I use the most powerful shotgun / sabot combo I can, (in my opinion) to take game as quickly and cleanly as possible. Whatever your method, respect others because we're all effected eventually.

I do think that Buckshot should only be used for Home defense or brush clearing.

Speaking of instigating...You want to talk primitive hunting??? There's a guy ( an actor in the movie Roadhouse w/ P. Swayze, the "badguy" I think) that hunts bear with a spear !!! No Hi-Tech Compound Bow...No In-line Muzzleloader...No .300mag Wheatherby... No Hi-tech Sabot Slugs... Especially No Crossbow !!! Just big balls and a sharp stick !!! Now thats hunting...everything else should be banned...:0)

mikeylikesit...and he wants all his friends to too...
 
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