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I can't reply to the other thread so here is my 2 cents. I have been a MBH member all my life.32 years. I have been going to the d 7 in carp shoot in fennville MI, since I was a kid. we camp as a family. I have shot in the shoot for 20 years. MBH is a good FAMILY org. I don't care what side you are on but some people are comparing them to peta????:rant: there are alot of good MBH members.
 

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I can't reply to the other thread so here is my 2 cents. I have been a MBH member all my life.32 years. I have been going to the d 7 in carp shoot in fennville MI, since I was a kid. we camp as a family. I have shot in the shoot for 20 years. MBH is a good FAMILY org. I don't care what side you are on but some people are comparing them to peta????:rant: there are alot of good MBH members.
Before you get all worked up about things, you may want to understand the context that it was used. No one denies that MBH has and does good things. To say they don't would be foolish. But the current issue of crossbows is something where they have fallen short when it comes to MI hunters that want or need a different choice of archery weapons. MBH's stance on the issue leaves people out of the woods during archery season for no apparent logical reason. It limits the choices of equipment to what THEY feel is good for you. There has been not one logical or meaningful reason to be against the inclusion of the crossbow. Yet they are trying to place limitations on what a person can choose for an archery weapon even though there has been no history of adverse effects to hunter nor herd. When an organization tries to limit your participation for no apparent reason then the comparison to another organization that wants to limit your participation is almost inevitable. Needless to say, that's where the comparison ends.


I would like to ask one question of you though. If you had rheumatoid arthritis, or another ailment that didn't allow you to enjoy shooting a traditional bow or a compound bow during archery season, would you like to be told your hunting days during archery season are now over? Is that what 'family' would do to you?
 

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Crossbows are bows only by name.They are in fact spring driven guns fired from a shoulder aimed to precision. My bow is aimed by my mind in perfect alignment with my body and my bow as an extension of such.

Crossbows are NOT archery{.}.Modern compound bows flirt with firearm hunting in my book.

If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[compound bows,too.I guess....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?:rolleyes:

Traditional bows require skill.Compound bows require discipline.Crossbows require alignment of three points.........like guns. Do not retard MY deer season with those too lazy or stupid to shoot a bow! (physically disabled withstanding)
 

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I would like to ask one question of you though. If you had rheumatoid arthritis, or another ailment that didn't allow you to enjoy shooting a traditional bow or a compound bow during archery season, would you like to be told your hunting days during archery season are now over? Is that what 'family' would do to you?
Crap happens, that's life. Sometimes we get injured, we get old, we can't help it. Hunting isn't a right, it's a privilege...if hunting was a right, then I guess I'd have to say go ahead and allow crossbows...

You said it yourself...

MBH's stance on the issue leaves people out of the woods during archery season for no apparent logical reason. It limits the choices of equipment to what THEY feel is good for you. There has been not one logical or meaningful reason to be against the inclusion of the crossbow. Yet they are trying to place limitations on what a person can choose for an archery weapon even though there has been no history of adverse effects to hunter nor herd.
If not allowing crossbows limits people from being in the woods...then philosophically speaking, you could say that with allowing crossbows, more people would be in the woods. If more people were in the woods, more deer would be killed, more accidents would happen, etc.

Apparently, the inclusion of crossbows in other states has not increased the number of people in the woods because inclusion has had no effect whatsoever...and if it has no effect whatsoever, then why go to inclusion in the first place???
 

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Apparently, the inclusion of crossbows in other states has not increased the number of people in the woods because inclusion has had no effect whatsoever...and if it has no effect whatsoever, then why go to inclusion in the first place???
No ADVERSE effects Bryan. Unless you consider more people killing more deer in an overpopulated herd adverse. Or if you consider an increase in antlerless harvest adverse. Or if you consider added revenue through license sales and excise tax revenue adverse. Or if you consider allowing a 10 yr old the opportunity to hunt during archery season adverse. Or if you consider allowing a elderly gentleman that's bowhunted all his life another chance at hunting adverse. Or if you consider a person that is not permanently disabled but still does not fit into the criteria for a permit getting an opportunity to hunt adverse.;)
 

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I can't reply to the other thread so here is my 2 cents. I have been a MBH member all my life.32 years. I have been going to the d 7 in carp shoot in fennville MI, since I was a kid. we camp as a family. I have shot in the shoot for 20 years. MBH is a good FAMILY org. I don't care what side you are on but some people are comparing them to peta????:rant: there are alot of good MBH members.
I agree that there are a lot of good MBH members, and that anyone who compares them to PETA is wildly off base.

However, there wouldn't be any circumstance imaginable where I would align myself with this organization, and that's entirely because of how they obstructed the crossbow permit process for disabled hunters.

I consider the conduct of the MBH reps in the NRC Crossbow Workgroup to be an embarrassment to their organization, and I consider the stance that they maintained throughout the first 6+ months of this year in respect to opposing any lowering of the disability limit to anything less than 80% to be a huge black eye to their organization. Their conduct and policies regarding disabled hunters have been indefensible and have done massive damage to their overall image and credibility. They have no one to blame for this but themselves.

From the NRC Crossbow Disability Work Group in May:

Here's a link to the minutes:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...s_237117_7.pdf

From page 12:


Following discussion, Rex Darlington made a motion, supported by Chuck Jordan, to set the minimum bow poundage to 35 pounds for a "functional draw test." Motion passed unanimously.

Following discussion, Chuck Jordan made a motion, supported by Dr. Wilming, to require a minimum of four (4) seconds of holding the bow in shooting position for a "functional draw test." If unable to do so, this may qualify the applicant for a crossbow permit. Motion passed 6-2.


Following discussion, Chuck Jordan made a motion, supported by Jeff DeRegnacourt, to accept physicians, and physical and occupational therapists to perform the muscle weakness and range of motion evaluations, provided that test methods and results are submitted with the application. Motion passed 6-4.


The NRC Crossbow Disability Work Group met again in June.

Here's a link to their minutes:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...s_242003_7.pdf

From page 13:

Following discussion, Bruce Levey made a motion, supported by Jerry Keck, to change the draft permit testing criteria to 30 pounds of resistance and to eliminate the four second hold requirement. Motion failed with 6 voting yes and 7 voting no.

Just in case this isn't clear, here's an example where the MBH reps voted to make the approval process more difficult for those with disabilities. Instead of sticking with what the work group had passed in May (can an applicant draw a 35 lb bow and hold it for 4 seconds?)they instead proposed that if an individual can draw 30 lbs and hold it for even a fraction of a second then that individual should be denied a crossbow permit. Thankfully their motion failed.
 

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Humor me, it's election season and I'm just playing politics by taking quotes out of context:evil:
Isn't that a prerequisite to be Pres? Tell me you aren't considering throwing your hat into the ring?:yikes::lol:
 

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Before you get all worked up about things, you may want to understand the context that it was used. No one denies that MBH has and does good things. To say they don't would be foolish. But the current issue of crossbows is something where they have fallen short when it comes to MI hunters that want or need a different choice of archery weapons. MBH's stance on the issue leaves people out of the woods during archery season for no apparent logical reason. It limits the choices of equipment to what THEY feel is good for you. There has been not one logical or meaningful reason to be against the inclusion of the crossbow. Yet they are trying to place limitations on what a person can choose for an archery weapon even though there has been no history of adverse effects to hunter nor herd. When an organization tries to limit your participation for no apparent reason then the comparison to another organization that wants to limit your participation is almost inevitable. Needless to say, that's where the comparison ends.


I would like to ask one question of you though. If you had rheumatoid arthritis, or another ailment that didn't allow you to enjoy shooting a traditional bow or a compound bow during archery season, would you like to be told your hunting days during archery season are now over? Is that what 'family' would do to you?
Please Dont try and hide behind the disabeld or family values, Its Very reminesent of Jeff fieger. This and Your opinions of where they fell short are the very reasons why I joined this great organization(MBH) and will be the reason theyre enrollment skyrockets. I dont believe they fell short at all. They stood up and protected the sport your trying to polute. As for your question about rheumatoid arthritis. I have rheumitoid and I like to flyfish, When it gets to the point when I cant cast anymore should I try and get a bill passed that allows Me to throw dynamite in the river? Is that what a family man should do?
 

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I can't reply to the other thread so here is my 2 cents. I have been a MBH member all my life.32 years. I have been going to the d 7 in carp shoot in fennville MI, since I was a kid. we camp as a family. I have shot in the shoot for 20 years. MBH is a good FAMILY org. I don't care what side you are on but some people are comparing them to peta????:rant: there are alot of good MBH members.

MBH has many good points. programs and people. Done some nice things. I agree with that and hope they keep up some of them

However here is what they did for my dad since I can talk about it here in this thread. http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252091

Now since my dad is not physically disabled By AARP, SSA, or the Medical fiield, According to you he is lazy and stupid Just curious is he one or the other or both? When did you meet him?

I myself never really cared about the stand of crossbows until it hit home. I started the other post and asked for only facts because of all opinions, comments and what not flying around. I asked because I wanted to see facts as I am sure some other do.

That thread is NOT about smashing the MBH!

Skinner
 

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Crossbows are bows only by name.They are in fact spring driven guns fired from a shoulder aimed to precision. My bow is aimed by my mind in perfect alignment with my body and my bow as an extension of such.

Crossbows are NOT archery{.}.Modern compound bows flirt with firearm hunting in my book.

If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[compound bows,too.I guess....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?:rolleyes:

Traditional bows require skill.Compound bows require discipline.Crossbows require alignment of three points.........like guns. Do not retard MY deer season with those too lazy or stupid to shoot a bow! (physically disabled withstanding)
MBH has and does do good things for Michigan's archers nobody's denying that, it's their current stance on crossbow issues that some people are having a hard time with..

My crossbow rail has no spring in it, as far as I know no other ones do either.. What do you mean by spring driven??

If you only shoot traditional equipment then I can respect your views on full inclusion for crossbows..Good luck this season..
 

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MBH has and does do good things for Michigan's archers nobody's denying that, it's their current stance on crossbow issues that some people are having a hard time with..

My crossbow rail has no spring in it, as far as I know no other ones do either..:dizzy: What do you mean by spring driven??

If you only shoot traditional equipment then I can respect your views on full inclusion for crossbows..Good luck this season..
All bows are spring driven!:yikes:The bow is a spring!

And yes,I'm a traditional archer.
 

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Crossbows are bows only by name.They are in fact spring driven guns fired from a shoulder aimed to precision. My bow is aimed by my mind in perfect alignment with my body and my bow as an extension of such.

Crossbows are NOT archery{.}.Modern compound bows flirt with firearm hunting in my book.

If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[:confused:....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?:rolleyes:

Traditional bows require skill.Compound bows require discipline.Crossbows require alignment of three points.........like guns. Do not retard MY deer season with those too lazy or stupid to shoot a bow! (physically disabled withstanding)
I guess Fred Bear was Lazy and Stupid! He called a Crossbow Archery Equipment!

"MY deer season", last I knew it is the Michigan Archery Season!!!! Thy ar not your deer, nor are they MY deer, they are a resources. It has been proven time and time again, that in OHIO there has been no adverse effect cause by full inclusion of the crossbow on The OHIO Archery Season.

Full inclusion has however brought more people to the sport, both young, old, and female. Maybe that is the problem, more people in YOUR woods is not what YOU want.

Lets see I have three children, 15, 12, and 10. My oldest is my daughter, a Sophmore in High School who plays three sports Volleyball, Basketball, and Softball excelling at all. My sons 12 and 10 play Football, Basketball, and Baseball, again exclling at all three. My daughter attends Regina and has advancd placement classes requiring 4 to 5 hours of homework nightly.

She is a member of the Warren Police Gentian Marku Explorers Post, which requires three meetings a month, and 16 hours of community service.

We all have compound bows. The youngest (10) shoots about 35#, and we have found little time to shoot. I work two jobs and coach a youth football team averaging 30 hours per week.

I would love to have them be able to go out into the woods where they appreciate the gifts good has created, sit with me in the woods and be able to harvest a deer or whatever. I have owned and shot a crossbows for over ten years. I find no distinct advantage over any other form of hunting if I were allowed to use my crossbow in archery season.

Those of you who are opposed to full inclusion have only demonstrated to me that you don't want me or my kids in YOUR woods, harvesting YOUR deer.

Worry not I have seen this before when I sat on CWAC and the Upper Penn. reps kept saying they didn't want me shootin THEIR DUCKS.

I choose now not to belong to any sportsmen organization because I have learned through my experiences that the opinons of the Board of Directors of these organizations have failed to represent their membership.

When proposal G came about because antis tried to eradicate bear hunting, they tried to turn bear hunters against each other. Baiters vs Dogs, you would have thought we would have learned are lesson. Then Dove hunting was taken away, not based on sound scientific reasoniong but rather because of legislative pressures of the antis.

Those of you who oppose my wishes for full inclusion, lowered age restictions, etc, etc.....think is it personal or is it basd on facts that the resources will be harmed.

As for lazy and stupid, look in the mirror!
 

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If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[compound bows,too.I guess....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?:rolleyes:

Do not retard MY deer season with those too lazy or stupid to shoot a bow! (physically disabled withstanding)
Now that is what get's people all fired up, because you dont agree with ones choice of weapon you start name calling

Will it ever stop??

With all the advantages of the newer bows and such Im sure some people think long bow's should be used but its your choice. There are to many things in this world to worry about other then arguing about a bow
 

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Please Dont try and hide behind the disabeld or family values, Its Very reminesent of Jeff fieger. This and Your opinions of where they fell short are the very reasons why I joined this great organization(MBH) and will be the reason theyre enrollment skyrockets. I dont believe they fell short at all. They stood up and protected the sport your trying to polute. As for your question about rheumatoid arthritis. I have rheumitoid and I like to flyfish, When it gets to the point when I cant cast anymore should I try and get a bill passed that allows Me to throw dynamite in the river? Is that what a family man should do?
No ones hiding behind anything. I'm VERY upfront on my reasons for full inclusion- Freedom of Choice. Not sure how you equate dynamiting fish with including a bow into an archery season but it's that type of mentality that will keep me fighting. Thanks for the additional motivation.;) I'll be billing Terry for my recruitment commission.:D:D

Originally Posted by axisgear
If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?

Traditional bows require skill.Compound bows require discipline.Crossbows require alignment of three points.........like guns. Do not retard MY deer season
Coming from a person that don't know bolts are arrows. :lol::lol:
 

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The thread started out because the OP, was offended that MBH was compared to PETA, and the Humane Society by Munster. The OP just pointed out how he had been a long time member of MBH and felt that there were many good people in MBH.

Right away the "anti's" pile on. I purposely waited because I knew that the "anti's" would bash MBH, your bashing is actually good for us, everyday I get more PM's supporting us and we see MS members openly joining and speaking out, because they have been able to see that your true agenda, full intrusion into the archery season. It's not about the disabled and it's not about the elderly and it's not about the children. It's about full intrusion.

The "anti's" are fuming because they face certain defeat this year.
 

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Crossbows are bows only by name.They are in fact spring driven guns fired from a shoulder aimed to precision. My bow is aimed by my mind in perfect alignment with my body and my bow as an extension of such.

Crossbows are NOT archery{.}.Modern compound bows flirt with firearm hunting in my book.

If you can't kill it with a long/recurve/short bow,it wasn't meant to be killed with an arrow.......[compound bows,too.I guess....]

Besides,crossbows use BOLTS not arrows. Hmmmmmmm?:rolleyes:

Traditional bows require skill.Compound bows require discipline.Crossbows require alignment of three points.........like guns. Do not retard MY deer season with those too lazy or stupid to shoot a bow! (physically disabled withstanding)
I guess that you will be coming out againt all of the new site for bows that allow the hunter to allign 3 points or the red dot scopes. thats not archery either. I am not a cross bow hunter, but I hunt with several hunters that are very accurate with there compounds out to 50 yards. I son't believe that those shots are for me but they choose to allow that range to be a possibility. We need to linit them as well that is not short range to me. If the arguements that MBH is currently using are taken to heart. then we need to change the archery rules to only allow stick and string. If you are not willing to sign on to that, THEN LET THEM HUNT.
 

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The thread started out because the OP, was offended that MBH was compared to PETA, and the Humane Society by Munster. The OP just pointed out how he had been a long time member of MBH and felt that there were many good people in MBH.

Right away the "anti's" pile on. I purposely waited because I knew that the "anti's" would bash MBH, your bashing is actually good for us, everyday I get more PM's supporting us and we see MS members openly joining and speaking out, because they have been able to see that your true agenda, full intrusion into the archery season. It's not about the disabled and it's not about the elderly and it's not about the children. It's about full intrusion.

The "anti's" are fuming because they face certain defeat this year.
From what I see Terry, every person that is in fact for the Freedom of Choice actually said some kind words about MBH absent the crossbow issue. Is that the way MBH takes a compliment? Geez, no wonder you guys are so popular.:lol::lol:

I find it funny that you would consider people that want to INCLUDE a bow into the archery season anti's.:lol::lol:

If the arguements that MBH is currently using are taken to heart. then we need to change the archery rules to only allow stick and string.
They DID try to exclude compound bows Jim. They fought at every turn to disallow that style of bow as well back when they came out. In fact, all the same arguments were used regarding the demise of hunting and such if the compound were to be allowed. Ironic isn't it that the compound was initially invented to assist with those that had difficulties with traditional wares?
 

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The thread started out because the OP, was offended that MBH was compared to PETA, and the Humane Society by Munster.
Well, PETA would like to keep as many people out of the woods as possible.
MBH and it's standards on crossbows for the disabled effectively keep many people out of the woods.
PETA would be proud.

Right away the "anti's" pile on. I purposely waited because I knew that the "anti's" would bash MBH, your bashing is actually good for us, everyday I get more PM's supporting us and we see MS member openly joining and speaking out, because they have been able to see that your true agenda, full intrusion into the archery season.
Again, there is no scientific or historical evidence to the contention by MBH that full inclusion would ruin bowhunting. Look at the data from all the states that have full inclusion. At a time when the herd needs reduction, MBH aims to keep people out of the woods who don't meet with their criteria. Their motives may not be the same as PETA's, but the effect is the same, reducing the number of hunters. There is no way that is a good thing, no matter how you spin it.
 
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