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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would anyone looking for hunting land be interested in buying into a corporation that owns an old farm?

Roughly based on the hunt club concept with each partner's share being based on approximately 20 acres. An example would be a 200 acre parcel owned by 10 individuals as tenants in common of the whole parcel. Each partner would have a spot to build a hunting cottage/home on, the remainder of the property would remain undivided for all to enjoy.

Of course the corporation would have to be set up with adequate bylaws to protect everyone's investment. The thought is to acquire farmland within easy commute to a metro area, (Detroit, Lansing, Flint, Grand Rapids) say within 25 miles and develop it as stated. From preliminary investigations, it appears that the cost per ownership interest would be in the $150K range. This is not something that we have set up already, just looking for input on the concept.
 

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I guarantee that given the proper legal safeguards, there are an abundance of people who will be interested,
 

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oops just re-read and saw your estimate of 150k for 20 acres. now I am less certain...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
But using my previous example, $150K for a building site with 1/10th interest in 200 acres of farmland within easy commute to metro area. This idea is more for a primary residence with good hunting/outdoor recreation/agricultural opportunities than for a hunting camp/second home. If you want to have a property like this you have to compete with the interests who want to subdivide it into small lots.

I hate to see our prime farmlands being turned into subdivisions or small acreage 'estate lots'. But very few people could afford the ticket to purchase large blocks of hunting land within commuting distance from work and farming cannot afford to compete against the developers in the marketplace.

Part of the idea with this concept is that through good management of woodlots and crop areas the land could help pay some of the costs of ownership. Not to mention the benefits of coming home to your own hunting preserve.
 

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I don't see it happening at that price. That's a $7,500 per acre venture without a building.

Pooling $3M could buy you some great land. :D
 

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For 150k, people could buy their own 80 acre parcel and not have to worry about all the legal complications of being involved in a multi-partner conglomeration ("you always get to hunt that spot" type stuff, etc.)

Way too steep a price, IMO.
 

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OK I buy 1/10 and start paying taxes on 200 acres. No problem, I agreed to this when I bought it.
But three or four of my partners are building $500.ooo homes and I don't want to build for another 4 years.
Do I pay their taxes because the value of the property has gone up?
 

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Luv2hunt stated not at $7500 an acre. I just saw a 5 acre lot, unwooded just an empty farm piece, go for $52,000. That was in Monroe County. The funny thing is that it was only on the market for about three weeks. Its getting crazy.:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To try and answer some of the questions...

Luv2hunteup - The basic idea is to pool resources to get some prime land and they are getting $7500/acre in those areas and more from the subdivision developers. $3M? 10x150K=1.5M If you go out a ways further, land is less expensive, but the average commute is longer also.

Eastern Yooper - I agree that the prices are awful steep, but when you start looking at 1/2 acre building lots going for $35K+ in many of these areas and 'affordable' homes being advertised as $250K.... Please tell me about any 80 acre parcels near a metro area which can be picked up for $150K.

Airoh - The building sites would be set up as 'site condominiums' where the building owner pays his own taxes for the structure(s) he has. With improvements the assessor can increase tax rates to some degree, but the bulk would be born by those building the homes. One way to control expenses would be to sell off development rights for the common areas which would reduce taxable value. Another would be to actively manage the property, for example I know a retired farmer who is receiving $70/acre renting his fields to another farmer for crops. Some quick math with our example, say 100 acres under crops @ $70/acre = $7000 for the corporation to go towards taxes. This does not include what may be realized from woodlot management or other possibilities...
 

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Yeah I kinda thought it was a site-condo but wondered if being a corp had a negative influence on taxes. They work good in some areas that have large minimum acreages.
I think you might have a good idea. Good luck with it.
 

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You plan on starting with 200 acres, then allow areas for buildings, lets say 1 acre lots, and now you want to lease out 100 acres for farming.
Now you are down to 9 acres of woods available to hunt. If 10 percent of this land is not accessible now your down to 7 acres ( 200-10%=180- 100(farming)= 80- 1acre lots(building sites)= 70 acres of huntable woods for 10 people.
Oh yes, can your wife and kids hunt this same property.
Husband & wife split 7 acres = 3.5 each.
Sounds like urban developement and it's getting crowded again.
 

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In concept it sounds like a good idea to be within driving distance. However driving distance and drive time are worlds apart in Oakland County and commuting to hunt for me pretty much stops with daylight saving time.

Unfortunately that's about as far as $150G goes down here. I would give it consideration if I planned to stay metro for a long(er) period of time, but I'd rather go where my dollar buys more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
thank you all, it gives me an opportunity to work through some of the potential pitfalls and see if I can solve them to make this a viable concept. One other aspect I am working on is how to acquire property in these areas at a better price to lower costs/acre. If a method could be devised to put more of the money from the sale into the hands of the seller, instead of going to commissions, taxes, fees, etc., then the purchase price could be reduced to reflect this. Please allow me to address each of your issues.

Airoh - Site condos seem to be the best way to approach this issue with the property managed by a corporation consisting of the owners. Do you know of a better way?

Fish Tales - I like your math, but you are trying to compartmentalize things a bit much. A given acre of land can be successully utilized for more than one purpose with careful planning. In my mind, each owner should have the right to invite three guests. Or thought of in a different perspective, there should be hunting opportunities for a maximum of 40 persons on 200 acres (5 acres/hunter). That is packing them in pretty tight and would require careful planning to assure a safe, enjoyable hunt for all. Regarding the 100 acres of crops that the corp may wish to lease out, it would be their land to lease or not lease. The lease probably should not be in one large block of half the property, it would not be wise management for wildlife values important to the owners in our scenario. There is nothing to say it could not be in five, twenty acre fields, or even be laid out in irregular shapes provided it is not too inconvenient for a farmer and his equipment to work.

Dawg - I don't know how to solve the drive time problem, other than to try and make it as short as possible. Guess it boils down to this. If you were looking to buy a new home locally, would you rather own a small piece of acreage from a farm that was cut up and have a large lawn with no hunting opportunity or would you rather be a part owner of the farm with a few other people, maintain the rural aspect and have limited hunting available in your backyard?
 

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Maybe it's just me but it appears to me that hunting pressure would equal or exceed most state land near metro areas, which of course if free to hunt.

If every family built a dwelling you would have to have a 450 ft safety zone around each dwelling. That safety zone would contain about 14.6 acres. Assuming each dwelling was equally spaced and each family had 2 hunters to split the remaining 54 acres each hunter would have 2.7 acres of undivided land to hunt aside from their 14.6 acres safety zone around their dwelling which is even smaller than the 20 acres suggested. Even with no dwellings or family members or guests that's one hunter per 20 acres. Very high hunter density.


Here's a few examples of listed land I found that's more my style. A few more dollars and longer drive but much closer to paradise in my book.

281 ACRES all wooded, 28 foot travel trailer, hunting blinds & trails, on seasonal county road $179,000

320 Acres wooded on county road, good hunting area $295,000

320 Acres wooded hunting land with remote access, two ponds
$230,000
 

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Oops!

I can see that I am waaaaaay out of touch with what land costs down there.

Way off.

I know one thing: I am gonna stop complaining about $1500-$2000 per acre up here!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
with downstate, nor can you compare the northern lower with the southern lower. I personally live in the northern lower and have a difficult time dealing with land values here, let alone down there. The genesis of this concept was while hunting with a friend on a family farm near Flint, noticing all of the farms being turned into subdivisions and 'estate' lots of 5 to 10 acres. His uncles who own the farm have already been offered $1.2M for their 200 acres. Just down the road a 20 acre parcel was sold for $250K last year, this was just a crop field on a county road folks. I looked at a 15 acre parcel with an older, modest, 3 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath home and a 30x40 pole barn, which is on the market for $275K. The vacant .82 acre lot next to my friends house has been appraised at $35K. You do not even want to talk about city prices where many of these people are coming from. Where my parents live near Detroit, a 50'x100' lot is going for over $50K.

I have just been trying to devise a method to allow development on these older farms without destroying their agricultural and wildlife values. The agricultural values are important here as this is some of the best farmland in Michigan, contrary to what some people may claim about only the marginal farms being developed. I do not know of a single farmer who could afford to purchase land at these prices, no matter how good the land.

Luv2hunteup - the safety zones do not apply to your own land. Heck, you can sit on your deck and hunt if you want, provided you have permission from anyone else within 450' and your municipality has not outlawed hunting or shooting within its boundaries. As for the hunter density, if you set up quotas for the number of animals taken as per best management practices and carefully laid out hunting spots, it would not be as bad as it sounds. For example, on my friends farm this past fall, their family all hunted in and around a 10 acre woodlot, hunter density of about 1/acre on property that is not managed with wildlife values as a concern. Their success rate was extremely high with nineteen bucks taken, most were six points or better and the best was a very nice twelve point with a 22" spread. Yes, 1 1/2 year old bucks here are usually six points or better. I do not know how many does were taken, but at least twenty. This was not an unusual year for this propery and has been going on there for at least the last ten years that I have known these people.
 

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the safety zones do not apply to your own land. Heck, you can sit on your deck and hunt if you want, provided you have permission from anyone else within 450'
You may want to check that law again.:)
 

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Safety zones are all areas within 150 yards of an occupied building, house, cabin, or any barn or other building used in a farm operation. No person, including archery and crossbow hunters, may hunt or discharge a firearm, crossbow or bow in a safety zone, or shoot at any wild animal or wild bird within a safety zone, without the written permission of the owner or occupant of such safety zone. The safety zone applies to hunting only. It does not apply to indoor or outdoor shooting ranges, target shooting, law enforcement activities or the discharge of firearms, crossbows or bows for any non-hunting purpose.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363-31581--,00.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
for the clarification of the safety zone law. I should have stated that you would need 'written' permission from anyone else within 450' (150 yards), not just permisssion. Of course, having dealt with recreational trespass and safety zone issues on the river in front of my house, I can tell you that many COs are reluctant to issue a citation for hunting in a safety zone, unless the hunter discharges their weapon, you witness it and are willing to prosecute them. One further issue, if it is your own house and property in question, you do not need to provide yourself with written permission. As a part of the bylaws of the corporation, all property owners could agree to provide written permission for all other corporate partners and guests hunting in areas approved by the board.
 

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I think the concept is great, anything to curtail subdivisions is good imo. Lots of variables in practice though and I think each property would need to be assesed differently....different bylaws etc. There could/would be tough issues involving a member (property owner/homeowner) that showed disregard for the bylaws. What recourse would other members/owners have regarding these possible problems? Just kind of playing devils advocate ya know.
I do like the concept though.
 
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