[pescadero]

And there is a lot more that goes into deaths than population. Its the demographic of that population combined with cases and timing of those cases.

We know how to better care for patients now.

Yep - I would expect the later your case peak, the lower your case fatality rate will be.

 

[sureshot006]

They also have over twice the population

Yes. Fla has over twice the population. Consider their case rate right now. Last I heard it was... 15k per day? So around 7500 cases per day if MI equivalent population.

 

[pescadero]

Yes. Fla has over twice the population. Consider their case rate right now. Last I heard it was... 15k per day? So around 7500 cases per day if MI equivalent population.

Cases last 7 days -

Florida: 105,108
Michigan: 21,780

 

[bucko12pt]

Cases last 7 days -

Florida: 105,108
Michigan: 21,780

One would expect that with the FL economy open and MI shut down. Fact is 1/3 more people in MI died per 100k which proves our leader bungled it from day 1

 

[WALLEYE MIKE]

I thought a lot of people said it would dissappear after the election?

I heard from someone that it would be gone in a week. That was back in March.

 

[WALLEYE MIKE]

One would expect that with the FL economy open and MI shut down. Fact is 1/3 more people in MI died per 100k which proves our leader bungled it from day 1

Question is what should she have done on day 1? (to satisfy you)

 

[sureshot006]

One would expect that with the FL economy open and MI shut down. Fact is 1/3 more people in MI died per 100k which proves our leader bungled it from day 1

Sure. If you are looking at it through political glasses.

There are more variables than red or blue. I pointed a couple of them out earlier.

 

[bucko12pt]

Question is what should she have done on day 1? (to satisfy you)

She should have involved the legislature....she didn’t.

She should have involved business professionals to decide which industries could still operate safely....she didn’t.

She should never have sent Covid patients to nursing homes....she did.

She should have never have made an
Asinine ruling like telling people they couldn’t go fishing with a power boat....she did.

The above would have helped immensely and wouldn’t have put people and businesses in the hole they’re in.

 

[pescadero]

She should never have sent Covid patients to nursing homes....she did.

Nursing home residents who need nursing home care catch COVID, but are recovered enough to no longer need to be hospitalized.

You can:

1) Keep them in hospitals taking up hospital beds unnecessary
2) Send them back to their nursing homes

So... you think she should have done #1 instead of #2?

 

[usedtobeayooper]

Two options? That's it? Those are literally the ONLY two places they could have gone?

 

[bucko12pt]

Nursing home residents who need nursing home care catch COVID, but are recovered enough to no longer need to be hospitalized.

You can:

1) Keep them in hospitals taking up hospital beds unnecessary
2) Send them back to their nursing homes

So... you think she should have done #1 instead of #2?

No, I didn’t say that.

There were other option of places of sending them to nursing homes. I was specifically referring to patients she sent to nursing homes who weren’t in a nursing home prior to infection.

She had a complete federal facility set up that never ever had a patient in Novi. That entire facility could have been used exclusively for that purpose.

 

[pescadero]

Two options? That's it? Those are literally the ONLY two places they could have gone?

People who live in nursing homes, and need full time nursing home care... that is who we are talking about.

Where else? What other place, for people who need nursing home care, but don't require hospitalization?

You going to send them home? Oh wait - home is a nursing home.

 

[pescadero]

No, I didn’t say that.

There were other option of places of sending them to nursing homes. I was specifically referring to patients she sent to nursing homes who weren’t in a nursing home prior to infection.

They didn't exist.

"...a tragedy that has prompted harsh criticism of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and her policy that allowed recovering seniors back into facilities where they may have exposed peers."

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-g...gans-covid-deaths-are-nursing-homes-who-blame

This is the Executive Order in question:


4. A long-term care facility must adhere to the following protocol with respect to a COVID-19-affected resident who is medically stable:

a) If the long-term care facility has a dedicated unit and provides appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit, the facility must transfer the COVID-19-affected resident to its dedicated unit.

b) If the long-term care facility does not have a dedicated unit or does not provide appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit, it must transfer the COVID-19-affected resident to a regional hub, if one is available to accept the resident. If no regional hub is available to accept the transfer of the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must attempt to send the resident to a hospital within the state that has available bed capacity. If no hospital will admit the COVID-19-affected resident, the long-term care facility must transfer the resident to an alternate care facility.

5. Once a long-term care facility resident who has been hospitalized due to onset of one or more of the principal symptoms of COVID-19 becomes medically stable and eligible for discharge in the judgment of the resident’s medical providers, a hospital must discharge the resident in accordance with the following protocol:

a) If the long-term care facility where the resident resided prior to the onset of one or more of the principal symptoms of COVID-19 (“facility of residence”) has a dedicated unit and provides appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit, the hospital must discharge the resident to their facility of residence for placement in the dedicated unit, provided there is available bed capacity.

b) If a discharge in accordance with section 5(a) of this part is not available, the hospital must discharge the resident to a regional hub, provided there is available bed capacity.

c) If a discharge in accordance with section 5(a) or 5(b) of this part is not available, the hospital must transfer the resident to any alternate care facility with available bed capacity in accordance with the following protocol:

It required long term care facilities "where the resident resided prior to the onset of one or more of the principal symptoms of COVID-19" to put their resident in their dedicated COVID unit in their facility when discharged from the hospital.

It didn't put non-nursing home residents in nursing homes. It didn't put patients needing hospitalization in nursing homes.

It only put nursing home residents who were discharged from the hospital back into their nursing home, and only if they have a "dedicated unit and provides appropriate PPE to the direct-care employees who staff the dedicated unit".

 

[Oldgrandman]

Speaking of lunch rooms, supposedly granddaughters lunch room at school you lower your mask, take a bite and replace your mask. Done chewing and swallow and repeat.

That's pretty strict. But it still shows the silliness of this restaurant closure.

 

[usedtobeayooper]

People who live in nursing homes, and need full time nursing home care... that is who we are talking about.

Where else? What other place, for people who need nursing home care, but don't require hospitalization?

You going to send them home? Oh wait - home is a nursing home.

Well let's see.... even early on, two things were clear: it was highly contagious, and the elderly were among the most vulnerable. But sure, let's take a contagious individual and pack them in with the most vulnerable because we're too lazy to find another solution. Oh I don't know, maybe establish a secondary home, staffed with trained professionals... maybe in a school (they were empty), or a hotel, conference center... anywhere OTHER than among the vulnerable.

Something tells me, that even you agree the decision/directive was beyond dumb, but because the individual that made that decision was from a certain party, you'd rather defend it than question it.

Had it been the other way around, your opinion would be too.

 

[pescadero]

Well let's see.... even early on, two things were clear: it was highly contagious, and the elderly were among the most vulnerable. But sure, let's take a contagious individual and pack them in with the most vulnerable because we're too lazy to find another solution. Oh I don't know, maybe establish a secondary home, staffed with trained professionals... maybe in a school (they were empty), or a hotel, conference center... anywhere OTHER than among the vulnerable.

Something tells me, that even you agree the decision/directive was beyond dumb, but because the individual that made that decision was from a certain party, you'd rather defend it than question it.

Had it been the other way around, your opinion would be too.

They only sent stable individuals, back to their nursing home of residence, and only if the nursing home had "a unit dedicated to the care of COVID-19-affected residents".

If they didn't have "a unit dedicated to the care of COVID-19-affected residents" then:
"the hospital must discharge the resident to a regional hub, provided there is available bed capacity."

...and if the regional hub doesn't have occupancy then:
"the hospital must transfer the resident to any alternate care facility with available bed capacity"

 

[Josh R]

Under the current policy the hospital can not discharge a nursing home resident until they test positive, according to the article

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 

[bucko12pt]

People who live in nursing homes, and need full time nursing home care... that is who we are talking about.

Where else? What other place, for people who need nursing home care, but don't require hospitalization?

You going to send them home? Oh wait - home is a nursing home.

Its the middle of a freaking pandemic. The Novi facility could have been set up in an emergency situation sufficient to care for those patients.

You realize your argument supports the rules that needlessly killed thousands of people.

Would you do it that way again, or try to find a better solution?

 

[pescadero]

Its the middle of a freaking pandemic. The Novi facility could have been set up in an emergency situation sufficient to care for those patients.

You realize your argument supports the rules that needlessly killed thousands of people.

Would you do it that way again, or try to find a better solution?

Nursing home residents were sent back to their nursing home on discharge ONLY if their nursing home had a dedicated covid isolation unit.

If the nursing home did not have a dedicated covid isolation unit they were not sent back.

The Novi facility was not set up or staffed for people needing 24/7 assisted living.

 

[Oldgrandman]

Its the middle of a freaking pandemic. The Novi facility could have been set up in an emergency situation sufficient to care for those patients....

You realize your argument supports the rules that needlessly killed thousands of people.

Would you do it that way again, or try to find a better solution?

I find it hard to believe they could staff and make the necessary "baggage" and necessary equipment that COULD accommodate nursing home patients that needed to be isolated, somewhere else. (considering)

People in nursing homes were getting sick from the staff not each other. i mean I ain't sure, but my sisters experience has been an eye opener to me. Based on what happens/happened there, I am OK with the practice. It seems most logical too.

Remember this, we STILL don't have 1 full year of data to work from.