Michigan Sportsman Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,767 Posts
Here's is the new criteria for person's with a permanent disability to obtain a permit to take game with a crossbow. In fairness to the DNR/NRC, this stuff just got approved less than 24-hours ago. As such, the implementation plan is still being worked on. So, give the folks in Lansing a few days before you call and say how can I sign up!

Here we go.


WILDLIFE CONSERVATION ORDER

Amendment No. 14
Under the authority of sections 40107 and 40113a, Act No. 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, as amended, being sections 324.40107 and 324.40113a of the Michigan Compiled Laws, the Natural Resources Commission and the Director of the Department of Natural Resources orders that, effective August 15,2008 the following sections of the Wildlife Conservation Order shall read as follows:


5.95 Permit to take game with a crossbow.
Sec. 5.95. (1) The department may issue a permit to a person who is certified as being permanently disabled by a licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist as provided in this section. That permit shall be issued without cost to the applicant and shall authorize that person to take game with a crossbow during the open season for that game if that person holds a license to take that game issued pursuant to part 435 and complies with all other laws and rules for the taking of game.

(2) An applicant for a permit under this section shall submit to the department a signed certification from a licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist indicating the disability determined to be present in the permit applicant. The licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist may certify that the applicant is permanently disabled as required by this section if the licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist finds that the permit applicant has a disability that renders them unable to use conventional archery equipment. In support of such a determination, the licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist shall utilize the following standards and
criteria:

(a) A functional draw test to simulate the drawback posture and/or position with a weight equivalent to 35 pounds of resistance for a 4-second duration.

(b) Manual muscle testing: Shoulder flexion, shoulder extension, shoulder abduction (horizontal plane) elbow flexion and elbow extension are graded equal to or less than 3 of 5 using a standard manual muscle grading scale or an equivalent test.

(c) Impaired range of motion: Goniometric measurements using the "American medical association guide to evaluation and permanent impairment rating," or other guidelines accepted by the American medical association or an equivalent test. If shoulder flexion is equal to or less than 90 degrees or shoulder extension is equal to or less than 10 degrees or shoulder abduction is equal to or less than 70 degrees or elbow flexion is equal to or less than 90 degrees or elbow extension is equal to or less than negative 20 degrees, the permit may be granted.

(d) Amputations involving body extremities required for stable function to use conventional archery equipment do not require objective test findings. However, the applicant is required to present a physician's certification to be qualified for a permit.

(e) Any spinal cord injury resulting in permanent disability to the lower extremities, leaving the applicant permanently non-ambulatory or other disability resulting in a permanent wheelchair (mobility device) restriction, as diagnosed by a physician, do not require objective test findings.

(f) Coordination assessment. Coordination is the ability to execute smooth, accurate, controlled movement. In coordination or coordination deficit describes abnormal motor function characterized by awkward, extraneous, uneven, or inaccurate movements, caused by central nervous disorders, including, but not limited to, Parkinson's disease, cerebral palsy, hemiplegia, hemiparesis, and closed head trauma, or by progressive neuromuscular diseases, such as muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Purpose: to assess the ability of muscles or groups of muscles to work together to perform a task.

(3) Any other permanent disability that renders the applicant unable to use conventional archery equipment as diagnosed by a licensed physician shall be sufficient grounds for granting the permit. The licensed physician must note in general terms how the disability prevents the applicant from using conventional archery equipment other than a crossbow.

(4) A person shall not seek diagnosis from a licensed physician or physical/occupational therapist for purposes of meeting the requirements of this section on more than 2 occasions within a 6-month period.

(5) Crossbow permits issued pursuant to this section are valid unless revoked pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, Act No. 306 of the Public Acts of 1969, being sections 24.201 to 24.328 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(6) Arrows, bolts, and quarrels used for taking deer, bear, elk, and turkey with a crossbow under a permit issued under this section or as provided in section 2.1 are required to have a broadhead hunting type of point not less than 7/8 of an inch wide and must be a minimum of 14 inches in length.

Issued this 14th day of August, 2008.
Approved as to matters over which the Natural Resources Commission has authority.
Keith J. Charters, Chairman
Natural Resources Commission

Approved as to matters over which the Director has authority.
Rebecca A. Humphries
Director
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,457 Posts
(3) Any other permanent disability that renders the applicant unable to use conventional archery equipment as diagnosed by a licensed physician shall be sufficient grounds for granting the permit. The licensed physician must note in general terms how the disability prevents the applicant from using conventional archery equipment other than a crossbow.
Would anyone consider this subsection's interpretation to mean anyone with physical limitations of strength? For example, a woman that doesn't have the strength to pull back 35#'s? A childs conditon may not be deemed permanent so I can't see how they would be included but what about the above?

BTW- I love the fact that a Doctor can make this call and no percentage is included. Well done.. One thing I'd like to see is a "temporary" disability included.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,839 Posts
Good job to everyone who wanted at least this to happen (more in the future). It sounds very reasonable as a first step.

As to a woman not having the strength, I believe it would be possible that the same woman could build her strength if there was no physical reason why she couldn't so it would fall under "temporary". "Temporary" it sounds like the department is going to attempt to have the legislature change the law to allow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,457 Posts
Good job to everyone who wanted at least this to happen (more in the future). It sounds very reasonable as a first step.

As to a woman not having the strength, I believe it would be possible that the same woman could build her strength if there was no physical reason why she couldn't so it would fall under "temporary". "Temporary" it sounds like the department is going to attempt to have the legislature change the law to allow.
Thanks Boehr.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,274 Posts
THANK YOU TO ALL... When and where can I get the forms......:D

I agree with Boehr that the strength could be built up and that is not a "permanent disability".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
I have known this was coming for quite some time and also welcome the changes as long over due. Thanks to Bruce Levey and Jerry Keck for their work on the committee.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,457 Posts
I still wonder if physical strength limitation could be considered permanent. I may never be as strong as a weight lifter or football player no matter how hard I worked at it. I know that's an extreme example, but there are diminutive people that may experience the same trouble on as small a scale as 35# draw. Not debating this, just curious as to the interpretation.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,432 Posts
I have known this was coming for quite some time and also welcome the changes as long over due. Thanks to Bruce Levey and Jerry Keck for their work on the committee.
Terry

I'm glad that this was a passage that we all can agree on

It seems fair and just

Now we all can get along and follow our dream of hunting with fellow sportsmen and sportswomen

Let the games begin, I mean Hunting:D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,767 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have known this was coming for quite some time and also welcome the changes as long over due. Thanks to Bruce Levey and Jerry Keck for their work on the committee.
Terry,

There are many words to describe Levey's and Keck's efforts surrounding this process. I am afraid "work" aint one of them.

Since this thread was created as an informational post, I suggest that you create your own thread and give your undeserved kudos there. I'm sure someone will follow shortly thereafter with the appropriate commentary.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
720 Posts
There will still be a bunch of physically challenged hunters that will miss out because of the "permanent" designation.

Tear a rotator cuff a month before archery season and kiss it off..

Full inclusion is the way to go..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
Terry,

There are many words to describe Levey's and Keck's efforts surrounding this process. I am afraid "work" aint one of them.

Since this thread was created as an informational post, I suggest that you create your own thread and give your undeserved kudos there. I'm sure someone will follow shortly thereafter with the appropriate commentary.;)

So only comments that you approve of? Others have made comments regarding the post. So call a Mod and complain. My kudos stand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,379 Posts
Man O Man - will 'shots' never end ? -

Ease up guys - read the new reg and digest it for a while -

ferg....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,865 Posts
Not one person left out=full inclusion

Thank you for the information, Riva. It is a good beginning for those of us that have been excluded from archery hunting. It is more than exciting to think that I will be able to participate in the fall archery season once again. Thank you is too small a phrase to say to everyone that made this opportunity come true for me.:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,750 Posts
Again, I applaud the decision of the NRC and the efforts of the committee. This is a good first step, but misses the mark in a few areas.

The so called "fuctional" draw test should be dropped completely. As we are told over and over again, on this and other sights, to become proficiant with a long, recurve or compound bow one must practice, practice, practice. The test only asks for the person to be able to drawback an equivelant of 35lbs and hold for 4 seconds one time. The decisions should be left to the physician/therapist to decide without this unneeded test.
There should be an allowance for a temporary permit for temporary disabilaties.
There should be an allowance for those over the age of 60 to use a crossbow whithout having to obtain a permit.

Without these stipulations, many hunters are still sitting on the sidelines when they should be enjoying the bowhunting season.

JMHO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
........... Without these stipulations, many hunters are still sitting on the sidelines when they should be enjoying the bowhunting season.

JMHO
Isn't that the whole idea? Just barley being able to pull back a marginally effective poundage is saying something else. We would rather you hunt with the min poundage "we" feel can take a deer rather than humanely take a deer out with an xbow. All this does it take the xbows difference of not being drawn by hand and effect it into a regulation.

Kudos to the creators for keeping other hunters out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,632 Posts
I Just got off the phone with Cecilia at the DNR and she said that they should have the new permit applications available by Wednesday.
She stated that she would send one my way as soon as she has them completed. It will also be posted to the DNR website.
Not sure if it will be at the same time.

It looks like I may be hunting during archery season after all.

I bet they will be inundated with new apps that couldn't make the 80%.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
...

(a) A functional draw test to simulate the drawback posture and/or position with a weight equivalent to 35 pounds of resistance for a 4-second duration....
Is the issue about fairness to other hunters or meeting the minimum capabilities to put down a deer?

If the former, is the solution is to limit ALL vertical bowhunters to hunting with 35 lb recurves since that's all that's needed?

If the later, how many hunters use (effectively) 35 lb recurves? Just a guess will suffice. I'll say <1% because I know some kids that have started out there.

If its about minimum capabilities, I'm confused as to why people use more poundage than they need. The often touted issue of drawing and holding in the presence of game is the big difference between vertical and crossbows. Why would any healthy hunter want to hold 40 lbs for 2 minutes when they could hold 35 lbs for 2.5 minutes.

Or are all vertical bowhuntes snap shooters? When I was recurve hunting it was a mixed bag. Sometimes you draw back with the intention of letting it fly and you'd have to hang on for what seemed like incredible periods of time.

It'd be interesting to see the average hold time and poundage for all healthy trad hunters. Any references anyone? After all, what's good for the goose suits the gander just fine.

Last thing...please help me out.

basspro sells 32 compounds and 57 bow sets
they sell 35 crossbows and crossbow sets
they sell 14 types of trad bows.

Why don't they sell a single 35 lb traditional bow?

Bow Lowest weight (lbs)
PSE® Archery Sequoia Longbow in 45
PSE® Archery Impala™ Recurve Bow 45
PSE® Archery Coyote Recurve Bow 45
Martin X-200 Recurve Bow 50
Martin Stick Longbow 45
Martin Savannah Longbow 45
Martin Rebel Recurve Bow 40
Martin Hunter Recurve Bow 50
Fred Bear® Montana Longbow 45
Fred Bear® SuperMag 48 Recurve Bow 45
Fred Bear® Super Kodiak Recurve Bows 45
Fred Bear® Grizzly Recurve Bow 45
Martin X-150 Recurve Bows 45
Martin L-100 Longbows 45

35 lbs is all that's needed...right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
371 Posts
Isn't that the whole idea? Just barley being able to pull back a marginally effective poundage is saying something else. We would rather you hunt with the min poundage "we" feel can take a deer rather than humanely take a deer out with an xbow. All this does it take the xbows difference of not being drawn by hand and effect it into a regulation.

Kudos to the creators for keeping other hunters out.
35 pounds is most then enough to kill a deer humanly. It might require that person practice b/c it does have to be a good shot, but it will pass right though if you put it where your suppose to. I started out hunting with 30 pounds no problems with killing deer. Your good out to about 20 with 35 pounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,457 Posts
35 pounds is most then enough to kill a deer humanly. It might require that person practice b/c it does have to be a good shot, but it will pass right though if you put it where your suppose to. I started out hunting with 30 pounds no problems with killing deer. Your good out to about 20 with 35 pounds.
All 35# bows are not created equal. To say that 35#'s is all you need is pretty irresponsible. And the fact that you say a good shot is all you need flies in the face of reasoning against xbow inclusion. Most anti's argue that it's too easy to become proficient with one as if that's a reason to disallow them. Now you're saying that we need good shot placement, which you argue can be most easily obtained with a crossbow? :confused:
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top