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Discussion Starter #1
After the 2013 season my new bright idea was to buy heavier arrows and practice the brachial plexus shot, a shot that drops deer on the spot.

http://tinyurl.com/kz95av9

Because…. I have a couple deep ravines the deer like to die in and I hunt alone. So I bought 22” arrows and 175 gr. broadheads. Changed my mind when I thought about how much I would miss the tracking phase of the hunt.

For 2015 I’m thinking of 35 yd. lung/heart shots where speed is more important because the arrow needs to get there before the deer moves.

No doubt variabilities like this are a big part of what is so cool about the crossbow.
 

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How heavy of a bolt are you shooting and at what speed. You'll need about 800ft-lb of energy to reliably to pull off the shot.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
How heavy of a bolt are you shooting and at what speed. You'll need about 800ft-lb of energy to reliably to pull off the shot.
Those 22" inch arrows and 175gr. heads would end up at 525 gr. total weight.
I discussed this on another forum last year and that's how I came up with the idea, but the subject of foot pounds of energy never came up.
I don't know if I've ever heard of crossbows being discussed/described in terms of foot pounds of energy, but until I thought about this shot I never paid much attention to that stuff. My bow is 175 lbs. pull and 313 fps.
 

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Another stupid thread to promote taking unethical shots at deer. A crossbow is not a rifle. It has no shocking power. You would have to hit the spinal cord directly to kill a deer with this type of foolish shot placement. Ethical hunters know that crossbows and bows kill most effectively from hemorrhaging caused by sharp broadheads. Every ethical bow or crossbow hunter knows that the best shots on deer aim for taking out the lungs. Any other type of shot is unethical. If you want to promote taking less than ethical shots on here, then be prepared for backlash on here.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Another stupid thread to promote taking unethical shots at deer. A crossbow is not a rifle. It has no shocking power. You would have to hit the spinal cord directly to kill a deer with this type of foolish shot placement. Ethical hunters know that crossbows and bows kill most effectively from hemorrhaging caused by sharp broadheads. Every ethical bow or crossbow hunter knows that the best shots on deer aim for taking out the lungs. Any other type of shot is unethical. If you want to promote taking less than ethical shots on here, then be prepared for backlash on here.
For two years I was on a crossbow forum that had members from all over the U.S. and world.
In the Southern U.S. where they have DEEP ravines filled with INPENETRABLE briars so thick that retrieving a deer would be nearly impossible, they take this shot all the time with great success.
 

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For two years I was on a crossbow forum that had members from all over the U.S. and world.
In the Southern U.S. where they have DEEP ravines filled with INPENETRABLE briars so thick that retrieving a deer would be nearly impossible, they take this shot all the time with great success.
If you saw someone standing on their head out in the middle of a highway would you also promote that too? Taking a brachial plexus shot on a deer with a bow or crossbow is a stupid shot. Anybody that promotes that kind of a shot is certainly an unethical hunter in my book.
 

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I think that aiming for the lungs is most productive and ethical shot. I understand your position but disagree as it has a higher potential for wounding the animal. I equate this shot to a head shot with a bow. When you hits your target perfectly you get the results you sought, a dropped deer. There are just too many negatives for me to attempt this.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
If you saw someone standing on their head out in the middle of a highway would you also promote that too? Taking a brachial plexus shot on a deer with a bow or crossbow is a stupid shot. Anybody that promotes that kind of a shot is certainly an unethical hunter in my book.
You missed the part of my original post where I said the reason I considered the plexus shot is because of my age and I hunt alone. I have dragged deer out of ravines in deep snow. I used a small block and tackle on the last one.

I see far fewer deer than most and I certainly wouldn’t be taking “unethical” shots for long. I’ve learned a lot from forums but after all there are certain things you want to see for yourself.
When you start calling other legal hunters unethical and question their credibility you jump on the same highway as PETA, just in a different lane.
 

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You missed the part of my original post where I said the reason I considered the plexus shot is because of my age and I hunt alone. I have dragged deer out of ravines in deep snow. I used a small block and tackle on the last one.

I see far fewer deer than most and I certainly wouldn’t be taking “unethical” shots for long. I’ve learned a lot from forums but after all there are certain things you want to see for yourself.
When you start calling other legal hunters unethical you jump on the same highway as PETA, only just a little further down the road.
You've got to be kidding me. You sir are the type of hunter that gives PETA ammunition in their fight against us. Wounding losses are far to high in our ranks and people like you that think it's A-OK to take uncertain, unethical shots make things worse. Petta can use use as a poster boy.

If you find a spot where you can't recover a deer that runs off a distance, then you need to find a spot better suited to your limitations. I find dozens of spots every year on Public land that are ideal deer hunting locations, but I don't hunt them because they are so remote that extracting a deer would be a huge, possibly dangerous proposition for this aging hunter. You make it sound like there is only one place in the state for you to hunt and you are bound and determined to hunt there regardless of the consequences. I'm starting to think that you are just trolling for trouble on this forum based on the nature of the threads you are starting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
You've got to be kidding me. You sir are the type of hunter that gives PETA ammunition in their fight against us. Wounding losses are far to high in our ranks and people like you that think it's A-OK to take uncertain, unethical shots make things worse. Petta can use use as a poster boy.

If you find a spot where you can't recover a deer that runs off a distance, then you need to find a spot better suited to your limitations. I find dozens of spots every year on Public land that are ideal deer hunting locations, but I don't hunt them because they are so remote that extracting a deer would be a huge, possibly dangerous proposition for this aging hunter. You make it sound like there is only one place in the state for you to hunt and you are bound and determined to hunt there regardless of the consequences. I'm starting to think that you are just trolling for trouble on this forum based on the nature of the threads you are starting.

PETA could care less if we wipe the blood off the noses of our deer before taking pictures for the news, or how we shoot them.
In reality, it’s the high and mighty hunters like you that cause friction and divide US.
 

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You've got to be kidding me. You sir are the type of hunter that gives PETA ammunition in their fight against us. Wounding losses are far to high in our ranks and people like you that think it's A-OK to take uncertain, unethical shots make things worse. Petta can use use as a poster boy.

If you find a spot where you can't recover a deer that runs off a distance, then you need to find a spot better suited to your limitations. I find dozens of spots every year on Public land that are ideal deer hunting locations, but I don't hunt them because they are so remote that extracting a deer would be a huge, possibly dangerous proposition for this aging hunter. You make it sound like there is only one place in the state for you to hunt and you are bound and determined to hunt there regardless of the consequences. I'm starting to think that you are just trolling for trouble on this forum based on the nature of the threads you are starting.
In a previous thread he also states he shoots deer on the regular out past 70 yds and never had a deer jump his string. :dizzy:
 

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I shoot a excal vixen II it is a 150 lb recurve xbow. I was using firebolt carbon arrows with a 100 grn head magnus head. I have changed my set up to a xx75 2216 cross bow bolt from easton with a spitfire 100. I also installed a flemish string. I can't wait to try this set up. I have not shot any farther then 25 yds. My preferred yardage is 0-20 yds. I will lose speed but gain kinetic energy.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
In a previous thread he also states he shoots deer on the regular out past 70 yds and never had a deer jump his string. :dizzy:

Now there’s a troll comment if I ever saw one! I don’t know whether to take it literally or laugh, and figure you are just poking the flames for fun.
I didn’t say that, in fact most reading here know that from reading my thread: “Maximum distance you’ll shoot at deer” right below this thread.

Hey, there’s no way you can be sure if a deer jumps your string or if it’s your aim, end of that story.

As for a consistent killing distance, from what I’ve read after being on forums much larger than this one for years, I would say 35 yds. is worth trying. To ostracize me for that just shows you guys just aren’t educated enough.
 

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Those 22" inch arrows and 175gr. heads would end up at 525 gr. total weight.
I discussed this on another forum last year and that's how I came up with the idea, but the subject of foot pounds of energy never came up.
I don't know if I've ever heard of crossbows being discussed/described in terms of foot pounds of energy, but until I thought about this shot I never paid much attention to that stuff. My bow is 175 lbs. pull and 313 fps.
Your KE is about 114ft-lbs of energy which leave you about 686ft-lbs of energy short of what it takes to reliably kill a whitetail with the placement you are talking about. Remember that speed and energy drop off once the string is released.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Your KE is about 114ft-lbs of energy which leave you about 686ft-lbs of energy short of what it takes to reliably kill a whitetail with the placement you are talking about. Remember that speed and energy drop off once the string is released.

Ten Point says I should not go below 420gr., nothing about max.weight? The arrows I've been blowing right through deer (some I never found) for ten years weigh 460 gr.??
 

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Now there’s a troll comment if I ever saw one! I don’t know whether to take it literally or laugh, and figure you are just poking the flames for fun.
I didn’t say that, in fact most reading here know that from reading my thread: “Maximum distance you’ll shoot at deer” right below this thread.

Hey, there’s no way you can be sure if a deer jumps your string or if it’s your aim, end of that story.

As for a consistent killing distance, from what I’ve read after being on forums much larger than this one for years, I would say 35 yds. is worth trying. To ostracize me for that just shows you guys just aren’t educated enough.
Below is a copy and paste from a different thread. Also, Trophy Specialist called you out for the same exact thing I did

"Specialist, I recently read some crossbow makers like to pad the speed numbers of their bows. I have a top of the line Ten Point Elite rated at 313 fps, that could be a factor.
In my ten years with the crossbow I have killed maybe a dozen deer from 70 yards to 15 and never had one jump the string. I will let you know when the first one does it."
Whether you consistently kill deer at 70 or not, you stated you've done it. Now say you didn't? I'm not trying to argue, just pointing it out.
 

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Even contemplating a brachial plexus shot (which I never heard of before this post) is foolish. With 40 years of bow hunting experience and a fair amount of success. I feel it goes against everything I enjoy about bow hunting.

I support HUBBHUNTER2 and Trophy Specialist comments.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Even contemplating a brachial plexus shot (which I never heard of before this post) is foolish. With 40 years of bow hunting experience and a fair amount of success. I feel it goes against everything I enjoy about bow hunting.

I support HUBBHUNTER2 and Trophy Specialist comments.
If you were 75 years old, hunted alone and with two (sometimes 3) DEEP ravines you may have to have to drag them back through in knee deep snow (which I did once) you might think differently.
However, I did finally reject that idea when I realized tracking is a big part of the hunt and I would miss it. Don't know how I'll feel next year though.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Below is a copy and paste from a different thread. Also, Trophy Specialist called you out for the same exact thing I did

"Specialist, I recently read some crossbow makers like to pad the speed numbers of their bows. I have a top of the line Ten Point Elite rated at 313 fps, that could be a factor.
In my ten years with the crossbow I have killed maybe a dozen deer from 70 yards to 15 and never had one jump the string. I will let you know when the first one does it."
Whether you consistently kill deer at 70 or not, you stated you've done it. Now say you didn't? I'm not trying to argue, just pointing it out.

The reason I called your comment trolling is because you added the word "consistently" which I didn't use and you also disregarded this comment 3 comments after the one above:

"The first deer I killed with the crossbow was 70 yards because I was the only one in the woods with one and knew nothing about it’s killing range".

With that deer I kept moving back because the deer would come almost to the bait, snort, back off, come back snort, etc.. That happened every night for about 3 nights and I figured my pop up was too close.
 

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Having hunted deer for ove 35 years, and having killed them with every legal weapon I think MI allows, I personally wouldn't try to drop a deer by shooting it in the spine with an arrow or boltsimply because of the size of the target.

When bowhunting, even with my crossbow, if I'm off a little, it tends to be in height and not left to right. A little high and you miss, a little low and you shoot between the spine and the lungs and simply wound the deer.

But, to your questions, if you are truly confident you can consistently hit the spine, the arrow you use isn't going to matter because at the speed your crossbow is shooting, the penetration is going to get the to spine and paralyze them. Be prepared to finish them off with a second shot.
 
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