[Rocking-b]

Ok, here goes, I have changed the font size so you old geezers can read this and hopefully give me the benefit of your years of hand loading experience .( also for me to see what I am typing.).
Short version.....Have Ben away from reloading for years, loading the M-1 30 cal. Carbine, tapered straight wall case. Using Hornady trimmer and Lee quick trimmer. Shell holder RCBS#17, RCBS press. She'll goes into holder, up the press, engages the trimmer, case trimmed . PROBLEM...can not duplicate case length, case after case. As much as 3-5 thousandths difference, on a case that headspaces on the case mouth, this could be a problem. Excess headspace and the firing pin strikes the primer, shell moves higher into the throat, light tap on primer, hang fire? miss fire ? Abnormal ignition of powder, bullet stuck in barrel? And if the bullet is crimped and the case length is varied no telling where the crimp will be. Basic problem, need help suggestions on getting uniformity on case trimming
Most (75%) of the cases I have reloaded are shorter then the C O A L. by several thousandths .
I need to understand and solve this problem.
Thanks in advance, newby Paul.
One side note.....anyone know of any hand loading clubs, classes out here in Macomb County ?

 

[Rocking-b]

Chuck, got your P M but haven't figured out , as yet, how to reply to a P M , I am sure someone will jump in and educate me.
If you are in New Baltimore, you must be just down Jefferson from me (north).
I have picked up about 900 M1carbine cases from different sources on the Internet . These I figure to use in relearning how to reload metallic cartridges. I have no idea how many times fired these cases are but I inspect each one plus mic each one. 90% are deprimed and cleaned. I always mic deprimed cases as I can then eliminate erroneous readings because of primers that have somewhat "backed" out of the pocket and effect the caliper reading and the case length. Clean the primer flash hole from inside and then the primer pocket, lube-em up, resize, run-em thru the car wash and get down to business.
On all the cases that are on the far side of trim to length, I will run them thru the Lee Quick trimmer (which has a micrometer in .001 graduations). I will mic them BEFORE I trim and after I trim each one (there is where I have the problem.....NO consistantcy in trimmed length. I get so frustrated because I can just see the crimp being misplaced or on some long cases the bullet being held so tight that the cup is way high as is the pressure. (Maybe I worry too much or over think things) . Another aspect is that to seat a 308-309 dia. Bullet in a case that is .302-.304 dia. You have to "BELL or expand the case mouh.....on a slightly tapered straight wall case ? So that is let's say .306-7 bell, now the mouth sticks out like a sore thumb......the crimp is supposed to make the flair/bell go away after the crimp, well, if the crimp isn't where it is supposed to be do to irradic case length, whisky tango foxtrot ?
So now I have about 700 rds loaded, all different lengths ( C O A L ) and my next move SHOULD be to go out a buy a really stout Kenetic bullet puller ! Lololololol:rant:
Do I get credit for the LENGTH of my posts on this site ? Or just the number of posts ? Email might work until I learn how to reply to P M 's [email protected]

 

[Rocking-b]

I FOUND IT, I FOUND IT !!!!!!:yikes:

NOW on to the P M reply.

 

[alex-v]

If you are in New Baltimore, you must be just down Jefferson from me (north).

Which you can indicate in your profile. You will notice that a lot of us have the general area of where we live and hunt, shoot or fish show up in our msgs.

I think that you are worrying to much. I had thought that COL (cartridge overall length) was the minimum. As long as the cartridge is not below the minimum number and will chamber easily and properly you should be OK.

You can do a google search on cartridge overall length variation to get other opinions and thoughts after the rest of the group chimes in.

 

[Frogman]

As far as classes go, check the Detroit Sportsman's Congress. They have many different classes, including hand loading.
http://www.d-s-c.org/index.html

Call them and ask about the class that you want. I didn't see one scheduled in the next month.

 

[Duckiller]

Cases should be measured after you resize them. If you can't trim your cases to a consistent length then you may need a different trimmer. I have never used or seen the Lee trimmer. I use either a Lyman or Forester trimmer. They are a pain to set the correct length but once it is set you will have all your cases the same length. Don't use a power option just crank a bunch. Trimming cases is one of the jobs that I find mind numbing. Just set down and do it and be happy when it is finished.
I would be more concerned about case length than COL. Since the cartridge head spaces on the front of the case if case length is consistent then every thing should work.
I do not normally flair cases when loading jacketed bullets. If you can seat the bullet without crimping the case then you will have proper case tension on the bullet. If you are crimping cases then flair the case just enough to feed the bullet into the case. It takes a very slight flair. You can do it either with you depriming die or a Lee Universal taper tool. Remove the flair when you set the bullet by ever so slightly lowering your seating tool to take out the flair. Just barely start the crimp.
Good luck! Reloading can be a very addictive hobby.

 

[Rocking-b]

alex-v ,frogman , duckiller, great thoughts and ideas, certainly important items to think about. I have never used forums much before but now I understand what I missed. more times then not, I can not see the forest for the trees.
Alex-v, thanks for the heads up on the profile, I need to get that done, and i am going to google some MORE C O A L information. I do have several books on and about C O A L, got one just last week, NORMA RELOADING MANUAL, a lot of information in that one, about a month ago received Nathan Foster's latest book" practical guide to reloading", one of several in the LONG RANGE HUNTING SERIES, excellent , excellent book, MULTIPLE CHAPTERS ON COAL, CHAMBERS, CASE LENGTH, etc. and Berger Bullets latest reloading manual. when I'm NOT in the shed, I'm on the couch with a good book and lots of high lighters.
And thank you FROGMAN for the link to maybe finding some classes locally where I might find even more opinions and results form folks who have valuable solutions they have found or tried. BTW Frogman, do you know a Dave Marcelewski? He is a walleye fisherman, lives in saint clair shores AND also reloads, mostly pistol.
Duckiller, great ideas, and I DO mic each case after I resize them, but I also mic them BEFORE I size them and keep a running record of APPROX how much, in terms of thousandths, the cases stretch during resizing. If I did not mic before and after I would have no idea of the inconsistency of the trimmed case. This way I know that on this one case with this trimmer setting I took off .003 and on the next .007 , whisky-tango-foxtrot !!
I have been looking on line and thru different catalogs for that magical case trimmer with the micrometer dial on the end and a universal shell holder guaranteed to hold to + or - .0005, but no luck as of yet. In the mean time I have a dillon 1000 and the Lee quick trim and quick trim die, (it has a micrometer of sorts, black plastic ring that moves the cutter closer to the case .001 for each click, however thats the one I can't seem to dial in.
"I would be more concerned about case length than COL. Since the cartridge head spaces on the front of the case if case length is consistent then every thing should work"...........my case length isn't consistent, that's why I am concerned. In Nathan Fosters book he talks about this very thing (the old saying,...a little knowledge is dangerous) and explains all the things that such a condition can terminate in.
As far as flaring cases, the 30 M1 carbine's mouth is about .303-4-5 thousandths smaller then the .308-9 dia bullet that seats in it. Just too big of a difference with some kind of case mouth expansion, but who wants an hour glass case mouth, and to correct the flair after the bullet is seated, the crimp has to be in the correct place (correct me at any time if I have this wrong) on the case mouth. If the case length is not consistent the crimp won't be either. I use the Lee universal flairing tool and bell the mouth ever so slightly, I can just barely feel the mouth flair when I run my fingers up the side of the case wall. If the crimp is not in the correct place the flair does not go away.
I told another fellow on this site that my next purchase was going to be a stout bullet puller for all the shells I have loaded that may be wrong, hell, I may have to dig that 5# canister of h110 out of the trash and refill it .
you are soooo right about additive hobby, but I like it a lot.
Thanks to everyone who helped me out and offered thoughts and advice, appreciate it, and if you think of anything else, send it my way
Paul

 

[Rocking-b]

googled the dsc and copied the schedule for the coming months......thanks for the link
rocking-b

 

[GuppyII]

0.003"-0.005" is not too big of a deal with your 30 carbine, precision long range stuff yes but not plinking. You are WAY over complicating the process.. a suggestion is to bell the case if you need to then get a Lee taper crimp die to get rid of the bell, much more forgiving than a standard roll crimp die when case lengths vary.

 

[Rocking-b]

Guppy: Didn't know there is a die out there (taper die) that will reverse the flair on the case mouth with a bullet seated. I have a universal taper die, by Lee, but this die puts the flair or bell IN the case mouth, and you are saying there is a taper die that shuts the flair against the seated bullet ? Flair gone, bullet seated, I will scour the Internet and see if I can find one.
BTW, these cases range from 1.667 to 1.680, the goal trim length WAS 1.685.
Thanks for giving me that information on a possible flair cure.
Rocking-b

 

[Rocking-b]

guppy, thanks again for the tip on the tapper die as a possible cure for one of my problems with reloading the M 1 Carbine. unfortunately, Lee dose not make a tapper die for the M1, only 9mm and 38 and the 45.
rocking-b