Guide

whitedog is right as of right now no license is needed to guide in michigan however the state is trying to get us elk guides to start an association to certify elk guides but most don't want it.....i have heard from biologist that if we dont do somthing they will force the issue on us ....and most want to wait and see

I think ANY guides in Michigan should have a certificate from the State even if it costs a dollar. There are too many scams and unregulated people calling themselves "guides" for hunting in Michigan. The charter boat captain's have to tow the line and the hunting guides should be willing to do the same. Just my opinion.

hi steve.......there are currently i beleave 42 registered elk guides in michigan but all this means is we are registered with the state no license or any thing and the state doesnt want to get involved with registering us.....there are also another 40 who guide from time to time that are not registered and the state does suggest you go only with a registered guide but does nothing to stop the other guys from guideing......i am trying to get all the guides together that are registered so we can come up with some form of certification but most of them still say if the state doesnt push it we arent going to do it......i have about 8 who are interested but this has been a very slow road to go down......i dont know what the state is up to with the elk herd lately i can't get the info i was geting.....i hope the bear guides get better results than i am from the state

Originally posted by stevebrandle
I think ANY guides in Michigan should have a certificate from the State even if it costs a dollar. There are too many scams and unregulated people calling themselves "guides" for hunting in Michigan. The charter boat captain's have to tow the line and the hunting guides should be willing to do the same. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

I'll agree with you to an extent. The reason I don't think it is necesary is because of the local guys up here that own land and want the elk shot off of it. They don't want to open it up to some "paper" guide from down state. Nor should they have to. They want to be able to guide them selves. It is not that hard to guide for elk up here. If you own land with hayfields nine out of ten nights you will have a herd in the fields. All fall I watched about 40 elk in my father-in-laws fields at night. If I keep my window open in the evening I hear them bugle.

Originally posted by Elk Guide
hi steve.......there are currently i beleave 42 registered elk guides in michigan but all this means is we are registered with the state no license or any thing and the state doesnt want to get involved with registering us.....there are also another 40 who guide from time to time that are not registered and the state does suggest you go only with a registered guide but does nothing to stop the other guys from guideing......i am trying to get all the guides together that are registered so we can come up with some form of certification but most of them still say if the state doesnt push it we arent going to do it......i have about 8 who are interested but this has been a very slow road to go down......i dont know what the state is up to with the elk herd lately i can't get the info i was geting.....i hope the bear guides get better results than i am from the state

Click to expand...

Just because you are listed as an official guide doesn't mean you are not a scammer. Back in 2000 during my elk hunt, I had set out trailing a herd. I had just left my truck and turned to head in the woods when a "guide" who is listed on the states list pulled up and introduced himself to me. He asked if I had seen any elk and I showed him the tracks. He then had the nerve to ask me if I would take his hunter in there with me so he could shoot one. Well to make a long story short the hunter managed to stay behind me about 50 yrds. I just ended up pushing the herd in some thick stuff and then picked them up in the morning and eventually shot one. Now the story on the hunter was that he only had a few days to hunt. Was I greedy by not being cordial enough to take his hunter in? Were they just my elk seeing how I was on state land? I don't think so, but they were no more his than mine. I guess it just really surprised me to see this official guide wanted his hunter to get one so bad that he had him follow me.

Big Game .......sorry about your luck with some guides.....i have had the same luck with non registered guides so i guess it goes both ways.....i wont use the non regeistered guides name but he let a non licensed person shoot the elk because the person who had the license couldn't follow the elk any more because he was winded....no matter how you look at it this is a violation and i reported it......this is the kind of thing the DNR wants stopped there has to be some way of makeing people responsible for there actions and one way is to license the guides with the understanding that if there is a violation by any one you guide that you could have stopped you are ticketed to.....and wether you like it or not it is going to come to this either by us volunteering to do it or they will force it on us .....i agree you should be able to guide on your own property .....But that will be up to the state if we don't sit down and come up with some form of guide association.......where do you live in wolverine i would like to come up and talk to you so you know that i'm not like other guides you have run into.......bearhunter is a friend of mine and i am trying to teach him about elk and what i know about bear so that he can help me guide and so he can hunt bear this fall if he draws.......he is 19 his father died a few years ago and i have kind of been the one who takes him places like hunting and fishing....he loves the outdoors just like my son so he wants to move up here with me and hunt and guide ......i think if you would talk to him and let him know a little about bear hunting .....j have been hunting the north for 35 yrs so i do know the area but have never hunted bear so could we possibly come up and chat with you.......thanks carl

Steve.......i would say that it is about equal depending on the time of year.....But that doesnt really matter you still have to know the animal and the type or terrain it likes and what it prefers for food and what it will do when hunted......this will be 8 years guideing here in michigan but i have hunted elk since i was 11 years old .....my first hunt was in wyoming and my first elk was taken at the age of 14 .....i dont know what you guys are geting at by talking about paper guides but i will put my knowledge up againest any bodys on here......bob whitney is a freind of mine and the most successful one in michigan .....but then again he has been doing it for ever.....bob knows me and can vouch for me plus i have references....i also know vern bishop.....not as well as bob but i talk to him and we get along well.....i also know the huff brothers .....we worked together in 2001 on a early season hunt because i had spotted elk the night before .....they had a hunter in area c and so did i so we went after the elk togeter.....that was the only time we did that....my point is i know what i'm doing and i am only trying to find a way to get every body on the same page as far as rules go and prices that we charge ....like i said in the other post if we dont do something soon it will be forced on us by the new director eventualy

Originally posted by stevebrandle
Big Game,

A "paper" guide wouldn't be worth much if he didn't have some ground to hunt on. Are most of the elk on private or State land?

Click to expand...

If you spend some time up here around the elk you will find that they roam from area to area, depending on food, females, cover and pressure. I'll tell you what. Those elk that spent all fall in my father-in-laws field would spend the afternoon feeding. We watched them many nights and got to recognize the antlers of a few of the bulls. I talked to a logger logging some state land a few miles away and he described the number of the herd along with the antlers of the bulls. According to him the herd hung out in the mornings around the tree tops and then moved onto our property as the day got later.

This whole thing about guides registering is a bunch of hog wash if you ask me. Most locals want the elk shot and don't want to have to register or take classes to be an "officiail" guide. If they weren't allowed to have people on their land to shoot elk because they aren't guides would be crazy. The locals don't do it for the money as most probably don't charge anyways. I guess my whole idea is that this is some way to make guides mandatory here in Michigan and to make the prices the same across the board. The way I look at it if you have a tag and waste it because your guide was a slob than that is the hunters fault. Tags are hard enough to come by here and if you don't do your research your the one who wasted it. I mean come on most DNR officers will take you out and show you an elk if the season is nearing an end. You don't need a guide to be successful here in Michigan. All you have to do is get out there and get away from the people (including most guides) that drive the road and look for elk to shoot at. Do your scouting and get to know the area and you will find elk. This is not out west where you need to look for miles and miles to find elk. They are concentrated in a small area here.

out west where the outfitters and guides are licsened the cost of a hunt ranges from 3500 to 5000 they have to inclued the cost of liability insurance schooling and have a certifyied cpr card, and out west you will find licsened guides that are slobs and that just dont do there job, if we have to get licsened here we will have to make up the extra cost and will still have the same slobs out there so it realy makes no sence

"You don't need a guide to be successful here in Michigan. All you have to do is get out there and get away from the people (including most guides) that drive the road and look for elk to shoot at."

Big Game, you hit the nail on the head. I drew a permit in 01" and was successful by doing my own homework. I found that their are two types of elk guides here in MI, one that will take the hunter out in the woods and HUNT an elk and the other kind of guide that will drive the two tracks until they see one for you to shoot.

I was constantly reminded by one guide that if I didn't hire him I probably wouldn't get an elk. He kept quoting statistics to me about the guys who hired guides and the ones who didn't and their lack of success. Funny thing, we stayed at the same hotel outside of Gaylord that this "guide" stayed at and we compared notes each night. We actually saw more elk than him!!! And like I said, I took one and I believe his clients were skunked.

Now don't get me wrong, there are some very good guides out their. Matter of fact, I talked to one father and son team that were more helpful to me than anyone else and I didn't even hire them!

If you are fortunate enough to draw a tag and have to hire a guide, ask a lot of questions and ask for references. Heck, ask people on this forum!

Congrats on your elk Grandslam. What was your tag for? I guess if they had a registered guide system here in Michigan, I don't think it would deter this kind of activity like I see every year up here. All it would do is force those with the luck of the draw to have to hire a guide and cause this committee or whoever will oversee it to set a price on the guide service. As far as I'm concerned if somebody is going to go with a guide I would recommend Vern Bishop. As far as I'm concerned he is the best around in Michigan. I know Vern personally and he knows where the elk are even when the pressure is on. The nice thing of it is he knows alot of locals up here and can get you in on private property if you need to follow a herd. He does it all on horseback and makes for a memorable hunt.

BG-
My tag was for a cow. I tell you what, it was the hunt of a life time. I actually tracked this herd for almost 3 hours (no snow, it was 50 degrees) before I shot.

Hey, I just noticed this forum is under "Bear Hunting" not ElK!!

Where do you hunt bears? I got my first one in 2002 in the Red Oak area.

Yeah this was posted in the Bear hunters forum but turned into an elk thing.

I live outside of Wolverine just a few miles from the Pigeon River Forest. Where was your bear taken at in Red Oak? I hunt mostly the Pigoen River area. Lots of bear but also alot of hunters. The bears around here have gotten mean from all the running. I think this year I'm going to try west of Wolverine some. I know of alot of bears out that way with not so much pressure. If your out during the Red Oak hunt I'll be making bear camp out in the Pigeon someplace and your welcome to stop in. I don't suppose you have any elk steaks left but your welcome to stop in anyways