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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday the antlerless tags for DMU 486 where sold out but today somehow they added about 20,000 more tags. This just don't make any sense to me if they don't stick with there original quotas why even waste the time to do them in the first place.
 

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What's going on is that deer numbers in DMU 486 are still in excess of goal.

The number of antlerless tags issued is much less relevant than is the number of tags that actually get affixed to dead antlerless deer. Apparently, hunters have not been sufficiently successful in using those tags in 486.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What's going on is that deer numbers in DMU 486 are still in excess of goal.

The number of antlerless tags issued is much less relevant than is the number of tags that actually get affixed to dead antlerless deer. Apparently, hunters have not been sufficiently successful in using those tags in 486.
It just seems funny that when they are out of tags with there quota that they had set before the season they add more tags. I know where I hunt in central newaygo county just south of M-20 the deer herd seems to be down I did get one during the EAS but since then I haven't been seeing any what so ever. Our neighbors haven't been seeing many deer either. I am sure that there is some areas that have more does then what we have been seeing but in our area it just don't make sense.
 

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ya i hunt the same area i had a lot of hours on stand this year during bow season i seen 4 deer total. not many tracks or deer sign in the erea. i usually dont post much on here but i am glad you are seeing the same thing i am nothing.
 

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Realistically, 486 ought to be unlimited. Most of the old DMU's in 486 are double their population goals, and if the tags get sold out, things are only going to get worse. If they didn't make more tags available, THAT would be professional malpractice.

BTW, on my afternoon sit on 11/15, which ran from 2pm until dark, I saw zero deer. Does that mean we're short of deer, and we need to back off on the antlerless harvest? I think not. Hunter observations are a poor indicator of deer numbers.
 

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Cut the DNR some slack. DMU 486 is a new concept this year. Let's allow some tinkering to get it right. And FL is right, what is important is how many antlerless get tagged --- not how many tags are in the quota.

For what it's worth, two friends hunting farms about 3mi. apart saw respectively 200 and 150 deer on Sunday, the 15th. One of the fellows had antlered bucks within range for the entire day and saw perhaps 20 different ones. The other fellow told me he "passed" on 18 different bucks.

Neither man shot a deer.

(I don't gun hunt so have no personal anecdotal stories to share other than what I've been told by my friends. Also, never fear, both of those men will end up killing close to 15 adult does each by the time January 1st rolls around.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Cut the DNR some slack. DMU 486 is a new concept this year. Let's allow some tinkering to get it right. And FL is right, what is important is how many antlerless get tagged --- not how many tags are in the quota.

For what it's worth, two friends hunting farms about 3mi. apart saw respectively 200 and 150 deer on Sunday, the 15th. One of the fellows had antlered bucks within range for the entire day and saw perhaps 20 different ones. The other fellow told me he "passed" on 18 different bucks.

Neither man shot a deer.

(I don't gun hunt so have no personal anecdotal stories to share other than what I've been told by my friends. Also, never fear, both of those men will end up killing close to 15 adult does each by the time January 1st rolls around.)
All I am saying is that southern newaygo county should not be included in 486. I do agree in some areas there is way to many does but around us it just don't seem to be the case. I could only wish that we would see 150 deer. We would be happy to 1 deer
 

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Cut the DNR some slack. DMU 486 is a new concept this year. Let's allow some tinkering to get it right. And FL is right, what is important is how many antlerless get tagged --- not how many tags are in the quota.

For what it's worth, two friends hunting farms about 3mi. apart saw respectively 200 and 150 deer on Sunday, the 15th. One of the fellows had antlered bucks within range for the entire day and saw perhaps 20 different ones. The other fellow told me he "passed" on 18 different bucks.

Neither man shot a deer.

(I don't gun hunt so have no personal anecdotal stories to share other than what I've been told by my friends. Also, never fear, both of those men will end up killing close to 15 adult does each by the time January 1st rolls around.)
I agree with some of your post but also respectfully disagree with part. Instead of each county getting managed to it's carrying capacity more than 1/3rd of the state is bunched into one area. The out come will be some area's nearly void of does and other area's hardly touched. Just my 2 cents:)
 

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I agree with tommy in southern mi we need a lot more does killed in my area we do not the dnr needs a little time and help from hunters to figure it out i dont care if i see any deer gives me more time to shoot the bull with my neighbors and share trail cam pics
 

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All I am saying is that southern newaygo county should not be included in 486. I do agree in some areas there is way to many does but around us it just don't seem to be the case. I could only wish that we would see 150 deer. We would be happy to 1 deer
Newaygo county is a large land body. Just because you are not seeing deer "around you" does not mean that there are not alot of deer in Newaygo county. Perhaps the reason you are seeing less deer is because the habitat is wrong? This may not be the case for the entire county.
 

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One tag did not get used, when my gear got swiped my tags were in my pack. I never replaced that tag.
 

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Newaygo county is a large land body. Just because you are not seeing deer "around you" does not mean that there are not alot of deer in Newaygo county. Perhaps the reason you are seeing less deer is because the habitat is wrong? This may not be the case for the entire county.
on my land we have 5 acres of food plots and did a select cut on the trees but most of neighbors dont believe in cutting trees there habitat aint the best . one of my neighbors has a deer farm and for some reason he let 80 deer out because he said they where inbreading and all 80 went back in since he did this at the end of september i havent seen many deer
 

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on my land we have 5 acres of food plots and did a select cut on the trees but most of neighbors dont believe in cutting trees there habitat aint the best . one of my neighbors has a deer farm and for some reason he let 80 deer out because he said they where inbreading and all 80 went back in since he did this at the end of september i havent seen many deer

Well your neighbor broke the law, report him. I know where the next case of CWD will be:dizzy:
 

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Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Are you saying that despite sitting all day in an enclosed stilt blind with heat overlooking the food plot and groomed atv trail to it, and because its "cleared" will have 300 yard shooting lanes in every direction. Inside the blind will have reading material(qdma magazine) telling how to build the blinds, clear the land, plant brassica, fertilize, and wait patiently for the first 2.5 year old plus to walk in to the kill plot. All the while your ipod plugged in your ear, listening to CNN and the news for the day. Hoping you don't make a mistake shooting a "too small" of a buck....that despite all of this you did not see any Deer?
I find that very hard to believe!




BTW, on my afternoon sit on 11/15, which ran from 2pm until dark, I saw zero deer. Does that mean we're short of deer, and we need to back off on the antlerless harvest? I think not. Hunter observations are a poor indicator of deer numbers.
 

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ya i should turn him in but he owns the whole neighborhood every neighbor is buddies with him and nobody cares. none of his deer have id tags i think they are all wild deer last year he took the back top half of his fence down for a few months now it is back up wouldnt want to give any locations like centerline and echo drive in white cloud
 

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Cut the DNR some slack. DMU 486 is a new concept this year. Let's allow some tinkering to get it right. And FL is right, what is important is how many antlerless get tagged --- not how many tags are in the quota.

For what it's worth, two friends hunting farms about 3mi. apart saw respectively 200 and 150 deer on Sunday, the 15th. One of the fellows had antlered bucks within range for the entire day and saw perhaps 20 different ones. The other fellow told me he "passed" on 18 different bucks.

Neither man shot a deer.

(I don't gun hunt so have no personal anecdotal stories to share other than what I've been told by my friends. Also, never fear, both of those men will end up killing close to 15 adult does each by the time January 1st rolls around.)

15 does each is still a drop in the bucket. If you are seeing 150-200 deer a day there have got to be twice that amount easily your are not seeing. If you are concerned about the deer herd why is it so hard to gain access to these kinds of properties. Adding 20,000 tags to an area that is 1/3 of the state is ludicrous. Even grouping 1/3 of the state together is crazy. I live North of the dividing line in Newaygo county and we have way more deer than the majority of southern Newaygo county, but we are in the limited quota area. Last night when I went to Big Rapids we saw 40 deer standing in my neighbors winter wheat field an hour before dark. I know you will never see that in most of Newaygo county. Especially the areas around White Cloud.
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Just like you said FL basing numbers on hunters observations is not the best tool, but drawing with too broad of strokes is not either. I will bet you that the counties that didn't sell out of antlerless tags before don't have any higher antlerless kill now after this system has been implemented. Access is the problem,(before I hear how crowded the SLP is) and I mean access in the right areas to the right people who will shoot the right deer.

20,000 untracked tags is not management it's about dollars and greed.
 

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I think the "money-greed' whipping boy gets overworked. It's too easy of a shot to make.

Creating rules to manage Michigan's burgeoning herd ain't bean bag. It's hard and there are hard feeings. For every micro-spot of geography, for time period within the long season, for every weapon, for every style of hunting..........there is a constituency. A loud whiny 'let-me-call-my-congressman' constituency. So crafting a policy or regulation that aims at a specific result requires threading a thicket of competing interests and established protocols or 'traditions'. Toes will and do get stepped on.

In a situation like Newaygo, where I've read on these pages there is a distinct difference in land/soil types, vegetation, and habitat it is a challenge to apply a one-rule fits all type of regulation. And, it is a challenge to administer a regulatory regime in a time when the regulator is understaffed and subject to severe funding/budgetary constraints.

In short, the realities of today's governance requires painting with a broad-brush. Perhaps too broad for some part of this county or part of that county. Nonetheless, policy changes such as the implementation of DMU 486 has great merit for the vast bulk of the geography it encompasses.

A greater good has been created beyond the confines of a single county.
 

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Does the fact that MI's deer management practices are money motivated really surprise anyone? Not me.

Deer hunting in MI is big business and should be treated as a business. The down-side to that is,, the folks in charge of managing the deer are just as bad at running a business, if not worse.

Case in point is the public land anterless tag situation, along with the other tag fiasco's.
 

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Further.............

The poster above observes: "Adding 20,000 tags to an area that is 1/3 of the state is ludicrous.
"20,000 untracked tags is not management it's about dollars and greed."

I'm presuming the poster feels "20,000" is too many. ????

If so, let me add this perspective: My own DMU, where my farm is, has for some years had about 15,000 authorized permits (that is one single county).....it generally sells about 10,000 of 'em. Of which, about 5,500 to 7,000 actually get used.

The reality is even if the local DNR biologist & his boss authorized 100,000 antlerless tags..........there will still only be about 10,000 sold and less than 7,000 used.

In short, the "demand" side of the equation is being filled. So, for an area as large as the entire DMU 486....20,000 is just a drop in the bucket. It ain't much at all.

But, more importantantly, it is critically important in the over-populated SLP that IF a hunter WANTS to shoot an antlerless deer he has every opportunity to secure the appropriate permit to do so. Let us not let access to licenses be the bottleneck to reducing the SLP herd.
 
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