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Tornado Jim
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The doe I shot the other night illustrates something interesting that I have observed in the past. If a deer is calm and not alert or alarmed, and you double lung them, they usually run no more than 40-60 yards. In this case, She got to sniffing my trail in, then something made her bolt. But the fawn with her ran the other way, ending up under my tree. She came back on high alert, and I shot her. It looks in the video like she is about to fall down a couple of times in the open field, but then she would renew her energy and keep bounding. I believe this is because she already was on alert to danger around her when she was shot, and behind her as she ran. After running 150 yards, she fell down right among several other deer, who all bolted. I doubt she would have gotten back up, but I think all those other deer running got her back on her feet and she ran an additional 95 yards. Truly amazing animals.


http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/f...dbyohub-campfire1444863798-999337-jpg.193156/
 

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I have seen the same thing, and I always chalked it up to a rush of adrenaline prior to the shot, though I have no idea if that's it or not. Seems like I also read somewhere that venison shot through with adrenaline was somehow inferior table fare, something I haven't noticed, but then again maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Would be interesting, Bio, to get your perspectives on whether you taste any difference.
 

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I double lunged a buck a few years ago that bounded out about 50 yards and then walked another 150 until I lost sight of him. I waited over an hour and took up the track, only to jump him 30 yards from where I last saw him. I backed out and found him the next morning about 100 yards from where I jumped him the night before. He was still alive but unable to move. Gutting revealed a 3 blade broad head hole cleanly through both lungs, yet he lived over 15 hours before I got him. By all accounts, he should have been dead within a minute. Craziest thing I've ever seen.
 

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Tornado Jim
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have seen the same thing, and I always chalked it up to a rush of adrenaline prior to the shot, though I have no idea if that's it or not. Seems like I also read somewhere that venison shot through with adrenaline was somehow inferior table fare, something I haven't noticed, but then again maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Would be interesting, Bio, to get your perspectives on whether you taste any difference.
Had an inner lion for supper last night and it was a meal fit for a King.

I consider that idea to be myth.
 

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Nope never seen that, 1 lung for sure it can happen.... double??????. Midwest Whitetail has an episode on shots that look perfect but missed it's mark by centimeters. IMO shot looks just a touch back. I assume you checked both lungs after you gutted her?
 
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I double lunged a buck a few years ago that bounded out about 50 yards and then walked another 150 until I lost sight of him. I waited over an hour and took up the track, only to jump him 30 yards from where I last saw him. I backed out and found him the next morning about 100 yards from where I jumped him the night before. He was still alive but unable to move. Gutting revealed a 3 blade broad head hole cleanly through both lungs, yet he lived over 15 hours before I got him. By all accounts, he should have been dead within a minute. Craziest
thing I've ever seen.
15 hours with both lungs deflated??? No way.
 

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I have seen the same thing, and I always chalked it up to a rush of adrenaline prior to the shot, though I have no idea if that's it or not. Seems like I also read somewhere that venison shot through with adrenaline was somehow inferior table fare, something I haven't noticed, but then again maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Would be interesting, Bio, to get your perspectives on whether you taste any difference.

Hi, if you let me elaborate on the “theory” of meat quality and stress, please:

In livestock the effect of stress on meat quality is documented and its magnitude still a source of debate (and subject to more research). For this purpose stress can be classified as: 1) long term (almost chronic) and 2) acute, short term stress immediatly pre-slaughter (this is the case you are asking here for an arrowed deer).

A key metabolite in all this is glycogen and a variable to look at is meat pH and temperature of the meat in the hours immediately following death.

Glycogen is a precursor of lactic acid in muscle. More glycogen, induces more lactic acid. Lactic acid in muscle lowers pH (acidic environment). Low pH and high temperature (a carcass is not cooled down quickly) results in softer and paler muscle. On the other hand, less pronounced drop on pH and immediate refrigeration will lead to darker, firmer meat.

In livestock, especially cows, it’s been shown that an adrenaline shot leads to a sudden depletion of the glycogen storage. This is, glycogen is broken down and not replaced at the same rate. As a result pH is abnormally high (closer to 7.0), and it has been observed that it results in darker, tougher meat. This is more pronounced if the carcass is cooled down faster.

As for the magnitude of the effect of stress on meat tenderness, in comparison to other factors: genetics, age, sex (it includes females, males and castrated males), management (e.g: nutrition) etc. the literature is divided. Some people report a huge effect of pre-slaughter stress and some others say that the effect is minor in comparison to sex and especially age. I think that the issue is: animals sent to slaughtering are usually of the same age approx. and many times of the same sex, so the age and sex effects can’t be fully appreciated.

With deer it is all the contrary: there is strong sex and age structure in the deer we’ve shot, so it is hard to judge the effect of stress by only looking at individual deer because they may have different ages, genetic backgrounds and life histories (nutrition, etc).

Plus is we have the "post-recovery treatment" of the deer: If you find it quickly and skin it immediately, meat will cool down faster, and that may affect carcass temperature. and there are many other things we do (or don't do) with deer. you get the idea.

So, the differences in meat color and tenderness due to stress may exist. But in practice, with venison, effects of stress on tenderness will be obscured by all the other things that may affect the meat (from fawning to shooting).
 

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I think sometimes deer just have the will to live even though the are mortally wounded and don't know it. I've scratched my head a couple times to the amazement as to how far a deer will travel after a double lung. Last Friday I shot a buck, double lung, high on impact side, middle on exiting side and I figured him to have ran roughly 180 yards no farther than 200. Still amazing
 

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My buddies dad shot a buck last friday night and tracked it that night plus saturday morning, ended up about a mile before it got into a hay field and lost blood. Brought in a tracking dog but never found it. This buck was quartering away and turned as he shot. He thinks it entered behind the shoulder and exited through the brisket, only hitting one lung. It may or may not still be alive but a double lung shot is a dead deer, pretty quickly. 15 hours and still alive when found sounds like one I gut shot a few years back. I read a story about a shot that looked like double lung but the arrow glanced off the entrance side rib and exited out opposite side back leg which basically amounted to a gut shot deer when the shooter thought it was in the vitals.

A question bio. Did you have good, spraying blood the whole track?
 

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Have you ever noticed if other deer join with the one you shot it keeps them going? I've noticed tracking in the snow right when it seems there about to go down I've seen where other deer have joined in and seems they keep that deer you shot running
 

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Figured no one would believe me...but its not a joke. His lungs were not center punched, but not just sliced either. There was a clean hole through the back edge of both of them about an inch from the edge. They were dark, almost the same color as the liver when I pulled them out. Esophagus was cut too, but no gut whatsoever. Shot entered and exited within the diaphragm. Very little blood trail, or blood in the chest cavity. Believe it or not, doesn't matter to me, but its true. Why would I make that up?
Congrats on the doe Jim!
 

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Figured no one would believe me...but its not a joke. His lungs were not center punched, but not just sliced either. There was a clean hole through the back edge of both of them about an inch from the edge. They were dark, almost the same color as the liver when I pulled them out. Esophagus was cut too, but no gut whatsoever. Shot entered and exited within the diaphragm. Very little blood trail, or blood in the chest cavity. Believe it or not, doesn't matter to me, but its true. Why would I make that up?
Congrats on the doe Jim!
Did you shoot the deer a 2nd time when you found it alive? You hit the back edge of both lungs and also cut the esophagus??? Do you know where that is on the deer? Not trying to bust your nutz
 

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Figured no one would believe me...but its not a joke. His lungs were not center punched, but not just sliced either. There was a clean hole through the back edge of both of them about an inch from the edge. They were dark, almost the same color as the liver when I pulled them out. Esophagus was cut too, but no gut whatsoever. Shot entered and exited within the diaphragm. Very little blood trail, or blood in the chest cavity. Believe it or not, doesn't matter to me, but its true. Why would I make that up?
Congrats on the doe Jim!
I may not have aced anatomy in school so please enlighten me but how do you hit the back edge of the lungs and cut the esophagus if the arrow entered and exited on the sides of the deer?
 
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The assumption being made is that all double hits will result in the same amount of blood loss. Volume and rate of blood loss will determine the amount of time it takes for a deer to go down. There are other variables involved that impact blood loss. For example a double lung shot that also hits the heart or aorta will increase the rate of blood loss. An arrow double lunging a quartering deer will cut more tissue than a broadside hit. Since your deer was alarmed, she basically ran until she dropped. If she were not alarmed, she may have spent a considerable amount of this time stationary, and you would not have given it a second thought.
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