Michigan Sportsman Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone help me understand when DMAP's should be granted by the DNR? I own 55 acres near Freesoil and I have a severe overpopulation of deer. Last year during bow season it was not uncommon to see 50-75 deer in a sitting(about 95% of them were antlerless). I can't grow foodplots or plant trees for habitat development because the deer wipe them out.

So I called Larry Smith in the Baldwin DNR's office to apply for DMAPS. I have to admit that I was surprised at his response. He told me that the DNR was not equipped to manage deer on private lands. He said that he does not have the ability to manage local overpopulation and that the DNR leave it to the hunters to manage the local deer herd. I asked him how I can manage the antlerless deer on my property if the DNR make it impossible to shoot more that 4 antlerless deer on my property (combo license and two antlerlesss for zone 2). He didn't have an answer for me.

I guess i'll have to wait until CWD is found in my area before the DNR will become proactive on this:rant:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,444 Posts
Jon.....

Try this: go onto the DNR website and find the application for DMAP's. Print it and fill it out. Then inquire as to who gets it first...the local DMU biologist or his supervisor. Get that address and mail it pronto. You'll want it in their hands prior to the start of the seasons (I don't know if your county has the 'early antlerless').

It is my sense that the DNR is being pretty receptive to requests for reducing local herds. Now, of course, all deer issues are local issues....and it may be different up near Freesoil.

But, the above procedure is what I have done in the past. You need to do it in any case at it is the initial administrative requirement of the Department.

In my DMU every single request for DMAP's that I'm aware of has been promptly granted. I know of DMAP authorizations that probably total several hundred deer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I could not find the application form online. I called the Cadillac office and the operator told me that LEO Larry Smith needs to approve sending out an application form. I guess we know where that rabbit trail is going to end....
 

·
Say My Name.
Joined
·
14,731 Posts
jon2, you may have to take this above Mr. Smith.

Never forget, the MIDNR is a bureaucracy. Individuals within the department are fully capable of gumming up the operation, regardless of the organization's overriding policy objectives.

I didn't get DMAP's this year, mostly because they relaxed the 3-tag limit.

Last year, when I did get DMAP's, the lady I spoke to at the Rose Lake office (home of the south central region) was, to put it accurately, obstructionist in responding to my telephone inquiry. She conducted a transparent cross-examination, asked me a number of questions, some valid, most not, and there was no doubt in my mind that she was doing her level best to discourage me from applying for DMAPs. Had I not already been well-experienced with DMAP's and the formal process of procuring them, I may well have thrown in the towel and given up. Though there is a desire to accomplish herd reduction in the SLP, never forget that the more DMAP's that get issued, the more paperwork is involved for employees at the field offices.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
You may want to call Rod Clute the DNR Big Game Specialist in the Wildlife Division. 517-373-1263

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_38954_38957-197512--,00.html

Deer Management Assistance (DMA) Permits

Authority to purchase Deer Management Assistance (DMA) permits may be given by a wildlife biologist to landowners in areas where deer have caused significant damage to agricultural or horticultural crops, or in areas with documented deer diseases that affect livestock, human health and the welfare of the deer herd. DMA permits may be used by any hunter who possesses a valid Michigan deer hunting license. Youth 10 and 11 are restricted to archery-only hunting. DMA permits may be issued to take antlerless deer only. Deer taken with DMA permits do not count against a hunter's regular bag limit. DMA permits can be used during the archery, firearm and muzzle loading deer seasons with hunting equipment appropriate for the season and hunting zone. DMA permits are not stand-alone licenses. You must have purchased a regular firearm, archery, combination or antlerless deer license for the season in which you are hunting. Any person using a DMA permit must obey all other hunting laws.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just got off the phone with Rod Clute, he was very pleasant to talk with. He was very surprised that Larry Smith was unwilling to provide a legitimate evaluation of my DMAP request. He is going to follow up and get back to me early next week. I have my fingers crossed...:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.;)

The wildlife team in the thumb area have been most cooperative when it comes to issuing dmaps when and where they are needed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,444 Posts
Jon.....

check your PM's....then email me back. I'll link you to a form.

fx1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
I just got off the phone with Rod Clute, he was very pleasant to talk with. He was very surprised that Larry Smith was unwilling to provide a legitimate evaluation of my DMAP request.
What a load of crap Rod handed you. Rod knows first hand my experiences with Larry Smith last year when trying to get DMAPs. Mr. Smith wouldn't even send me an application. I had to have Rod send me an application, and I still didn't get anywhere after submitting it. To tell you he doesn't understand Larry's position of being very anti-DMAP is complete bull.

Rod explained Larry's opposition to DMAPs by describing Larry Smith as being "old school".

My guess, Larry Smith will not approve your DMAP request, and Rod Clute will tell you he will not overrule his field biologists.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
So is Larry Smith a LEO or a biologist? If he's the biologist then I feel sorry for you. Our biologist bends over backwards for our DMAP requests.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
:lol:
Can someone help me understand when DMAP's should be granted by the DNR? I own 55 acres near Freesoil and I have a severe overpopulation of deer. Last year during bow season it was not uncommon to see 50-75 deer in a sitting(about 95% of them were antlerless). I can't grow foodplots or plant trees for habitat development because the deer wipe them out.

So I called Larry Smith in the Baldwin DNR's office to apply for DMAPS. I have to admit that I was surprised at his response. He told me that the DNR was not equipped to manage deer on private lands. He said that he does not have the ability to manage local overpopulation and that the DNR leave it to the hunters to manage the local deer herd. I asked him how I can manage the antlerless deer on my property if the DNR make it impossible to shoot more that 4 antlerless deer on my property (combo license and two antlerlesss for zone 2). He didn't have an answer for me.

I guess i'll have to wait until CWD is found in my area before the DNR will become proactive on this:rant:
could't you get some friends and family to come on out and kill some does. i know it's your prop but if you want to get rid of some deer. just get friends to come on out. i'm sure there are alot of hunters that are willing to help you with your problem. i know i'd be willing to.:lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
So is Larry Smith a LEO or a biologist?
Larry Smith is the biologist at the Baldwin Field Office.

He told me DMAPs weren't intended for small properties, I told him that is not what Rod Clute told me. He said he gets paid to make that decision, not Rod Clute. Mr. Smith is a real piece of work.
 

·
Say My Name.
Joined
·
14,731 Posts
Larry Smith is the biologist at the Baldwin Field Office.

He told me DMAPs weren't intended for small properties, I told him that is not what Rod Clute told me. He said he gets paid to make that decision, not Rod Clute. Mr. Smith is a real piece of work.
This points up a common symptom of public sector bureaucracies, namely, the difficulty of disciplining incompetent employees. Bob S is not the only individual I personally know that has had difficulty with Mr. Smith's DMAP obstructionism.

FWIW, the biologist in my region, who was installed last year, was very responsive, and I'd give her high marks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
Well if Larry and Rod are in the way keep going higher. If you have to get your Rep involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,914 Posts
Can someone help me understand when DMAP's should be granted by the DNR? I own 55 acres near Freesoil and I have a severe overpopulation of deer. Last year during bow season it was not uncommon to see 50-75 deer in a sitting(about 95% of them were antlerless). I can't grow foodplots or plant trees for habitat development because the deer wipe them out.

So I called Larry Smith in the Baldwin DNR's office to apply for DMAPS. I have to admit that I was surprised at his response. He told me that the DNR was not equipped to manage deer on private lands. He said that he does not have the ability to manage local overpopulation and that the DNR leave it to the hunters to manage the local deer herd. I asked him how I can manage the antlerless deer on my property if the DNR make it impossible to shoot more that 4 antlerless deer on my property (combo license and two antlerlesss for zone 2). He didn't have an answer for me.

I guess i'll have to wait until CWD is found in my area before the DNR will become proactive on this:rant:
So you took up qdm on your property and now you have an overpopulation of deer, And you want the dnr to issue extra permits to deal with it. But you dont want others to kill the deer.:rolleyes:

Maybe I am overthinking this but you could undue the problem that qdm has caused. BY RETURNING YOU PROPERTY TO ITS NATURAL STATE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,246 Posts
Can someone help me understand when DMAP's should be granted by the DNR? I own 55 acres near Freesoil and I have a severe overpopulation of deer. Last year during bow season it was not uncommon to see 50-75 deer in a sitting(about 95% of them were antlerless). I can't grow foodplots or plant trees for habitat development because the deer wipe them out.
......:
Jon can you supply more info ?
As you know by now, if you already did not, that the DMAP's are for agricultural or horticultural damage. Or in areas of documented deer disease. I don't believe Freesoil is in an area of disease. Are you able to show any crop damage. You mention 55 acres, is any of this into farm crops ?
The 50-75 deer that you are seeing. Are they on your land or maybe in an alfalfa field of your neighbors ? Have any area farmers applied for DMAP's ? Results & why not use some DMAP's of your neighbor ?
How many antlerless deer did you and you friend/family take last year ? On average, how many antlerless deer have you and family/friends taken the past 5 years from your 55 acres ? About how many years has there been an over population problem ?
In my experience with the DMAP's and before that the Block Permit program, if you were able to show any crop damage at all, you could as many antlerless permits as you wanted. Some people who come on this site and complain about not getting DMAP's simply do not qualify and then they do not invite family and friends to kill antlerless(hopefully does and not bb's) deer.
I'm all for controlling the size of the deer herd, but some people(not meaning you Jon) complain about the DNR when they should be looking in the mirror at the real problem.
Thanks in advace for the additional info.,
L & O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,240 Posts
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...7512--,00.html

"Authority to purchase Deer Management Assistance (DMA) permits may be given by a wildlife biologist to landowners in areas where deer have caused significant damage to agricultural or horticultural crops, or in areas with documented deer diseases that affect livestock, human health and the welfare of the deer herd."

Seems to me the health and welfare of the herd in this case could be good cause to issue the permits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,246 Posts
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...7512--,00.html

"Authority to purchase Deer Management Assistance (DMA) permits may be given by a wildlife biologist to landowners in areas where deer have caused significant damage to agricultural or horticultural crops, or in areas with documented deer diseases that affect livestock, human health and the welfare of the deer herd."

Seems to me the health and welfare of the herd in this case could be good cause to issue the permits.
That's a good point Tom. I guess everyone is eligible for DMAPS. However, it is going to be a lot easier to get the permits if you can show actual crop/plant damage. I guess if you can just show some pictures of a large group of deer on or near your land you should be able to get these permits. Thanks for pointing that wording out to me.

L & O
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,488 Posts
This points up a common symptom of public sector bureaucracies, namely, the difficulty of disciplining incompetent employees.
That seems to be the problem. Lansing sets policy, yet there are no repercussions for local biologists that ignore that policy.

Rod told me that if you can show habitat(not crop) damage, that you can get DMAPs for as little as 5 acres. Larry Smith arbitrarily chooses to ignore that policy, and there are no repercussions for his action. He won't come out and look at my property, he won't even send me an application. It looks like jon2 is having the same issue with Mr. Smith.
 

·
Say My Name.
Joined
·
14,731 Posts
So you took up qdm on your property and now you have an overpopulation of deer, And you want the dnr to issue extra permits to deal with it. But you dont want others to kill the deer.:rolleyes:

Maybe I am overthinking this but you could undue the problem that qdm has caused. BY RETURNING YOU PROPERTY TO ITS NATURAL STATE.
I think a homework lesson is in order. QDM is directed at adjusting deer populations to healthy levels. That means, in this instance, toward reducing deer numbers, not increasing them.

jon2 is simply trying to by a responsible steward of the resource, and has my respect.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top