How did you purchase your Doe permit? I thought they didn't go on sale over the counter untill Aug. 2?

 

Gunrod, I read it the same way you do. Not only will there not be any left over permits for us public land hunters, There is no guarantee that either you or your sons will receive any permits at all if you were not lucky in the drawing. I understand that the majority of the deer are on private land because of food sources such as crops and "other" types of food (read bait piles) But in the southern part of the state at least on the public land that I hunt there are way too many does, they travel from the swamps and thick cover on public land to the food on private.
It makes no sense to me why the state did this this year, when all you hear from them is that the herd numbers are way too high. Does are a mainstay in my families freezer. Now there is a chance that we won't get a tag. If that happens I am not ashamed to say look out spikes. Apparently the state has made the decision that QDM is flawed so who am I to argue with the trained biologists. Now I know I am going to get a lot of grief over that statement from some of the members. And I will wager that the one's who will be giving it to me are the one's who own private land and will be sitting on top of unlimited doe permits.

 

To hell with grief Randy, you do what needs to be done to put meat in your freezer. I have two kids that eat venison year round, it part of our lives as I’m sure it is with yours. I’ve kind of made the same decision you did, I’ll let the “Specialist” worry about what’s best for Michigan’s deer herd, whether it be NRC,DNR, or even our very own experts here on the QDM forum. Stay within the law, have a successful season, and let somebody else with a lot of extra time on their hands worry about what’s best for everyone in Michigan. You worry about the important things, like shot placement, sharp knives, and most important being safe.

 

I guess part of my question about the private doe permits is that, say my brother lives in a quiet little city in Oakland county. Because there is no acreage qualifications and I haven't read where your property has to be located adjacent to any other public or private land, then my brother, who lives in Berkley can get a private permit as a land owner? This is just a little odd.

 

I don't understand why they are cuttin public land hunters short.

I am writing a letter to the DNR and inquiring about this odd policy.

However-

NO minimum acreage and no tax ID number......yahooooo!

This helps tremendously!

Good call by the DNR in this case. Anything to help remove excess deer from private lands!!!

Seeing as how our doe harvest needs much much higher, I hope this private land permits get abused!

We need to shoot more doe than we shoot deer in an entire season.

Hunt

shootdoe,shootdoe,shootdoe,shootdoe,shootdoe,shootdoe.

 

OK you are right, if you own a postage stamp in the middle of a nationa forest, (or downtown Detroit except for firearms laws) you can buy private land, doe licenses.

The same reg also states that you have to shoot the criiter on private land in the DMU you bought it for, in order to be legal. Granted, there will be cheaters. Those are poachers plain and simple. If they get caught they get burned, unless the CO that catches them is having such a good day that they let the guy off with a warning.

I think the whole thing was not well thought out. It is, however published and currently law. I believe in following the law, and I don't believe in stacking deer like cordwood even if you can buy all the licenses you want.

I do hunt on private land and could have shot up to 3 doe per year for all the years that I have hunted that land. I have never shot more than 1, and never bought more than 2 licenses. Last year I passed on a small doe thinking it might be a button buck, and ended up not getting any deer at all.

The law supposedly will deleat the population where its biggest, at the time when hunters are afield. It doesn't mean that we all need to be greedy and go kill something.

If any of us has a better idea, and are passionate enough to try to make a difference, we should be cross training and getting into conservation. We should be getting enough education to get in at a high enough level to actually effect change. Otherwise its just so much hot air.

BTW if I didn't hunt private land, I would still need no more than one doe licnense and if I didn't get it, one buck license would be sufficient. That may be why I don't get too excited about it in either direction. I don't need multiple deer. The vast majority of the rest of the hunters don't either, but the law allows it so I won't try to stop them.

 

I agree,

I hunt public and if I dont get a doe tag I will shoot the first legal buck that comes my way. I will NOT feel bad but PROUD.

Thats how shooting any legal buck started, becouse if you wanted to eat venison you had to shoot the first legal buck. With extra doe tags I would let smaller bucks walk bwecouse all I want is venison first then a chance at antlers is fun and if you get one a bonus.

 

Deerslayer, I am in the lottery. Jessy got his over the counter 'cuz he is only 14yrs.

I am not against shooting one doe only if that is what the 'specialist' feel is best. I too would eat doe year round. Last years doe only lasted 3 months in my house. I can afford to grocery shop but if there is such a need to reduce the doe herd then I would be willing to take more. The DNR website bears out that it is so important to shoot does yet they take the opportunity away.

Furthermore, why allow all the private land permits then? There's no fence to prevent these deer from traveling both types of property. It just doesn't make sense.

BTW, I'll follow the law no matter what it reads but I don't agree with the way it has been setup. There will be cheaters but it won't be me. I just don't see how the decision was made scientifically.

 

I have to agree. When I read that I thought it was very stupid also. If the DNR biologists think they have to give out 2000 permits for an area to get the necessary doe kill, then why would they not let the leftovers be sold over the counter when they only gave out 1000 in the lottery? Not to mention the fact they are always talking how they need more money. I guess it's just like any other "company". Top management always seems to thier head up their a#%.

 

Lets not forget the Private land special season Doe hunts this year either guys.

Now instead of just a late season IF you own land or happen to be fortunate enough to have access to private land, you can hunt in October with a firearm too.

I have to say I am really getting sick of it. yes I know I am only blowing smoke, but hey Does anyone agree with me.

If they want to sell private land Kill tage over the counter, then it is fine, But there should only be a set number, per property. then you can determine what is left over out of a total over all number of permits that would still yet to be filled.

Seems then you could offer the leftovers to everyone on a first come first serve bassis.

I love it Midland county on average ( where I reside ) every year has a big 0 left for public land, but there is always tags left for Private.

I keep forgetting that Deer read. Silly me. thats right those Private property signs are what the deer see and run too and never leave. Oh and lets not forget that the deer crossing signs mean that deer will only cross at the designated area right?

We need to put a huge sign up at the state lnes that reads.

ATTENTION!!! Michigan is completely under construction and deer run rampant through our state so be on the lookout. Oh we are also falling behind in our road upkeep every year in Michigan so we can build new sports stadiums for everyone.

Hmm come to think of it forget the roads, maybe we can let em return to dirt those ones are the smoothest ones we have left now anyhow.


Doe season. I say OPEN DOE SEASON Close Buck season for two years, heck 3-4 wouldnt hurt my feelings, I never get one anyhow LOL

 

Somebody needs to do a poll on this somehow. If you jump around this site, you will hear the people that hunt state land complain they arent seeing any deer and that they dont want to practice QDM. Then you get the people who hunt private land saying QDM, as they have way to many deer. Everybody knows hunting state land sucks during gun season, but some of us have no other choice. I come to this post and you state land hunters are complaining about the lack of permits available to you versus the private land hunters. From what Ive read/heard on here, this system makes sense. By that I agree if there are more deer on the private land versus the state then there should be more permits given to the private land. I dont agree with this theory of 1 per day, no limit however. That is not controling the population, but rather an attempt to knock numbers way down. Maybe the DNR realises finaly that hunting on state land sucks and they are trying to bring up the population of animals on their land?
Heres an interesting one for you. Do you think our states amount of hunters is going down like they say? I have talked with many hunters and it seems that due to the ability of over the counter doe permits, that they are not buying regular licenses. They are buying a $4 doe permit, and then if they get lucky enough to shoot a buck(on private land), they go into town and buy a regular license to tag the buck. This isnt making any money for the state, and I dont condone it by any means. What can be done to stop this from happening?
We also have to up the fine for shooting deer from the road. Way to many of these poachers in my area. Opening day you can see the same vehicle go by every 30-50 minutes. You know they are just waiting for a deer to be close enough to the road to shoot it and get it into the vehicle.

Kenn

 

Kenn, you bring up an interesting point that my dad also brought up. With everyone complaining about not seeing deer last year, maybe the DNR is trying to increase the herd on public land? I didn't think of it from this perspective which would be interesting to hear the reasoning.

But it still doesn't answer why so many private land permits? Those deer still cross the boundaries from private to public. It also says that the herd isn't being managed scientifically as we voted for years ago. You expect some politics but there has to be a line. I'm hoping a new govenor will give us some sort of direction and stick with it. The bounce from theory to theory each year is only causing problems.

 

There is a quota on private land tags, so not all hunters will be able to buy 150 permits...but it's very high in most areas, so some hunters WILL be able to buy 150 permits...I'm enclosing an article I ran not long ago in the papers up north, it only pertains to the northern counties, but the rules are the same statewide...Linda


PUBLIC LAND ANTLERLESS DEER APPLICATIONS DUE AUGUST 1ST
By Linda Gallagher

GAYLORD-If you’re hoping to hunt for antlerless deer on any of Michigan’s public lands this deer season, you have just a few days left until the August 1st deadline to apply for one of the few thousand licenses available this year in northern Michigan.

“Public land antlerless deer license quotas are a bit more conservative this year than the number of licenses that were allotted to public land antlerless deer hunters last year,”
said DNR Northern District Biologist Glen Matthews recently from his office in Gaylord. “This is because our whitetail deer herds are, with only a couple of exceptions, much more balanced on most of our public lands this year than in past years.”

In a number of counties, like Grand Traverse, Leelanau, Benzie, Mecosta, and Osceola, no public land antlerless deer licenses will be issued at all, said Matthews. “This is because, first of all, there really isn’t a lot of public land to hunt in those counties, and
second, because the majority of the deer herd in those areas is located on private lands.”

Other counties, like Antrim and Charlevoix counties, will each offer 400 permits to public land antlerless deer hunters, while neighboring counties of Otsego will have 900 permits available and Emmet County will offer 700, said the biologist. “Some of these counties, like Antrim and Charlevoix, had an unlimited number of public land antlerless deer permits available last year, which many hunters took advantage of and successfully
harvested antlerless deer. There have been no new discoveries of whitetail deer with bovine tuberculosis in these counties in the last two years (author's note-this was before the announcement about the Emmett cattle herds), and numbers of deer are now
somewhat reduced in this part of northwestern lower Michigan. These counties are an example of where we are being more conservative this year.”

Hunters looking for better chances of gaining a public land antlerless license would do well to consider Wexford or Cheboygan counties, which will each offer 1000 public tags,
Kalkaska County, which will have 2,000 public tags available, Crawford, which will have 2,600 available, or Manistee County, which tops the list of available public land tags being offered at 3,600.

Said Matthews, “Again, these counties reflect areas where we have large whitetail deer herds and a lot of public land. In previous years, Crawford was one of the counties where antlerless deer hunting was either prohibited entirely or very limited, especially on public lands. Since the discovery of several deer in the last couple of years with bovine tuberculosis in Crawford County, we have increased the number of public tags available in an attempt to lower both deer numbers and the possibility of disease in that area.”

For the first time in a number of years, quotas have also been placed on numbers of antlerless tags available in the seven county area of northeastern lower Michigan where there is a high prevalence of bovine TB. “None of those areas, including DMU 452, the core TB zone, have unlimited permits available this year, but we are issuing two kill tags with each antlerless license, both public and private, sold this year for that area,” the biologist said. “We will also be once again conducting both an early and a late antlerless hunt on private land in those counties, which consist of Alcona, Alpena, Crawford, Montmorency, Oscoda, Otsego, and Presque Isle counties. The late season will also be
conducted in a few other counties as well.”

The deadline for applying for public land antlerless deer licenses is August 1st. For the first time, no left-over public land licenses will be sold over the counter, if any are left-over after the lottery is held, said Matthews. “So, this is your only chance at getting a
public land antlerless license.”

A $4.00 lottery fee must be paid at the time of application for Michigan’s public land antlerless permits. Successful applicants must pay an additional $7.00 to receive a valid license for an antlerless tag.

Hunters can apply for public land antlerless licenses at any license dealer outlet or online at the DNR’s website at: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr.

On the other hand, if you’re interested in pursuing antlerless deer this year on private land in northern Michigan, your chances are much improved of receiving a permit. “Overall, private land antlerless hunting quotas are much more liberal,” said Matthews.
“Again, this is where the majority of our deer herds in the state are located, especially around agricultural areas.”

In a change from previous years, no lottery will be held this year for private land antlerless tags. All tags can be purchased on-line or over the counter starting August 2nd, said Matthews. “There is no minimum acreage requirement this year. The property tax ID number requirement is also a thing of the past.”

Hunters can purchase one private land license per day for any area statewide until quotas are met for that area. Should that happen, which isn’t likely in most areas as quotas are fairly high, sales of private land tags will be closed, said Matthews.

Michigan’s 2002 deer season begins September 21 with the opening of an early season deer hunt that will be conducted in the Upper Peninsula. A special statewide two-day youth deer season will once again be conducted September 28-29.

Michigan’s deer herd is estimated at 1.5 million, according to the DNR.

That's what he said...

Linda

 

Originally posted by ytlabs
Lets not forget the Private land special season Doe hunts this year either guys.

Now instead of just a late season IF you own land or happen to be fortunate enough to have access to private land, you can hunt in October with a firearm too.

I have to say I am really getting sick of it. yes I know I am only blowing smoke, but hey Does anyone agree with me.

I don`t agree with you because this is not state wide. In Missaukee County we not only don`t have an October antlerless season, we don`t have the December antlerless season either.

 

I see I am not the only one who thought the new policy of not selling the leftover public land permits after the lottery was strange. Last year there were 3000 public land permits for the county I applied in but less than 2000 actually applied. This left over 1000 permits available for sale after the drawing. I don't expect it to be any different this year which means that the quota of permits will probably not be sold. I thought the whole idea was to sell all the permits to reach an expected kill level. Seems like it is kind of a crap shoot now. Coupled with the private land permits that don't require a property tax id or minimum amount of land and the "bending of the rules" that is going to happen with that, I don't see how the deer herd can be thinned anywhere in the state with predictable results. We will see.

 

I also think that it is in response to people not seeing alot of deer last year but still don't understand why leftover permits won't be sold. Linda G's article explains some thinking but doesn't explain that.

BTW, thanks Linda. I've just begun noticing some of your posts lately and your reseach and insight are greatly appreciated.

 

There are a couple reasons why the DNR does this. The main reason, which has been overlooked by all, is that many doe's are killed on state land during the regular bow season by hunters using their plain old combo tag. A hunter can actually shoot two doe's on state land with his or her combo tag and still shoot another one with the antlerless tag. As some have mentioned, hunting on state land can "suck" in some area's. This is why. You've heard me mention time and again how we need a drawing/lottery/DMU control over how many deer permits are given for each county. This is another reason why. For example, the DNR has no idea how many people will be hunting certain area's of public land. The easily accessable 320 of public next to our club is as bad as it gets. There's often around 40 hunters on it on Nov. 15. Other less accessable area's may have none. I think their thinking is that hunters usually hunt the same place. The guys that hunt that public next to me more than likely wouldn't shoot one doe on one parcel and then decide that it'd be good management to move five miles away for the next doe. No, they'd shoot doe's until they complained that the hunting "sucked". Luckily, the DNR realized my county was hammered over the last few years and we have no public land permits or late antlerless season. But that's not to say doe's won't be taken off public land. Lots of them will. With an arrow in archery season. Now, how many is the question. Also, the DNR doesn't want people to "play it safe" with permits. For example, Clare county has only 310 public land permits and Midland has 2000. Many guys might say "let's put in for the area with very few because we can always get a leftover for Midland, because there's plenty. I think the DNR knows that many people don't come back for the leftovers and they are subtley trying to force everyones hand into buying permits where they think the biggest deer problem is at. At least from deer/auto accidents. (I think this is a bad way to manage the herd. So many people went rural over the last decade, that the crash numbers will soar, even though deer numbers are much smaller.) Either way, until the DNR does something like making people pick the DMU for their combo tags, they'll never have any idea how many doe's get shot in a county with an arrow. Until that changes, they'll never have any idea what the right number of antlerless permits should be in that DMU. For this year, Lake county offers an average of 24 antlerless permits per square mile. Newaygo has 16. Bay county has 6. Saginaw has 8. What I find odd is that Kent county, which is always a leader in deer auto accidents only has 13 per square mile.

 

You must have been busy Bob, I was waiting to see you chime in on this issue. Your insight is always appreciated.

The only problem I see with you DMU - Combo license is for us southern dwellers who hunt the north. Most hunters from the cities hunt the limited lands down here when we can't get north. But many of us hunt a week or two in the north. If we hunt more days in the south but don't take a deer (which is my case, I have more hunting hours down here but the hunting pressure is so great all my deer have been taken in the north) we would be likely to purchase permits for the north believing we would be more succcessful.

This would mean less hunting time in the north. With less hunting hours in the north, then the kill will be down up there increasing the herd size. It would also mean we couldn't hunt down in the southern DMU's increasing an already bulging herd. I read your other post about leftovers but that would be a crap shoot getting a second tag.

Another reason why the DNR would never go for this is because of tourist dollars. If us southern hunters purchase our tags down here, there would be no reason for us to travel north to hunt. The Michigan economy will suffer if we don't pump hunter dollars into the small towns of northern Michigan during hunting season. Deer season supports many campground owners, gas stations and grocery stores through the winter.

Biologically your method makes sense because you could accurately count where deer are harvested vs. hours hunted but the stats would be skewed because of hunters not hunting multiple locations thus lowering the amount of hours hunted.

This topic will be hot until a reasonable method to count where deer are harvested v. hours hunted are calculated and a settlement over the needs of public land deer and private land deer are settled.

 

I don't see where you had to own the land to get a permit.
And if you get a permit isn't it good for all private land as long as
you have permission. RB1

 

Bob@BBT wrote :

"The main reason, which has been overlooked by all, is that many doe's are killed on state land during the regular bow season by hunters using their plain old combo tag. A hunter can actually shoot two doe's on state land with his or her combo tag and still shoot another one with the antlerless tag"

Hey Bob, did I miss something in the rule changes over the years? Your saying both of your tags in a combo license can be used to take a doe provided your using a bow? Im confused, as I thought your first tag could be used for a doe or a buck, and that your second tag had to be a buck. If you shot a buck with the first tag, the second buck had to be 4pnts or more on one side.

Kenn

 

rb1, you are right, you don't have to own the land and can have permission to hunt. The antlerless guide says the private land permit is good only for the land within the DMU you are applying for. This does open it up to non-landowners with permission to hunt private land but gives the advantage to land owners.

 

Kenn, I don't want to put words in Bob's mouth but I am going to guess that it is a typo. I believe you are right on the 1 bow doe per combo tag but Bob will have to clarify what he meant.

 

KennR, What Bob was saying is you can use your Combo first tag for a Doe and your Public land Antlerless tag for another doe. That would be the two does.

 

All I can say is without someone being required to have a tax number to purchase the privateland permits, the number of treaspasing complaints will be much higher this year.

 

KennR,

BOB@BBT is correct. You can use both your combo tags for Doe's if you use a bow. However, the second buck tag must still be used for a buck with at least 4 points on one side if it is used for a buck. I believe this is stated right on the second tag.