Reading the posts on crossbows got me to wondering what everyone thinks about all the high tech stuff available to hunt with today. Do you think it makes you a better hunter? Or do you think it takes away from the outdoor experience? Obviously we all benefit from better clothes, scoped firearms, better ammo, etc. Safety equipment is better and I don't think anyone would argue with that. Compound bows brought more people into archery and some of those have switched to traditional. Black Powder has evolved into in-line muzzleloaders as accurate as many centerfire rifles 100 yards out. So where do we draw the line? What about fair chase ethics? Just curious of the differant views out there. Post your replys!
Crossbows, infrared game finders, laser sights, and other high tech stuff!
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Recurve, you ask a very good question. Personally, I do not draw any lines. I set my own guidelines, and respect you, and your right, to hunt in any legal manner that you choose. All I ask is that take high perecntage shots and show adequate respect for the animal you desire. <----<<<
I am not sure where the line should be drawn, but I believe there should be one. The future of bowhunting scares me! It used to be a sport that involved much needed practice, skill knowledge of the animal pursued and time spent scouting. It was a sport for the serious hunter, who loved the sport for its simplicity and skill needed for success.
But in the hustle and bustle of everyday life people are seeking fast and easy results. The quicker the better. This thought process falls right into the hands of manufacturers, who are busy creating, high tech equipment from scopes to bows with 85% let off! Expandable broadheads, ect.
Is this what we want? Isn't bowhunting for people who want a challenge far greater than gun hunting? And now we have the crossbow folks nocking at our door step; if ever allowed into our bowseason; will not only crowd our sport but will most likely shorten our season due to the ease at which a deer can be harvested. But its hard to state a good argument against crossbows when todays compounds are not far behind!
I have nothing against compounds and have hunted with them for years. I just believe a line needs to be drawn to make sure bowhunting is still a SPORT! This very reason is why we see an ongoing flow of bowhunters like myself switching to recurves and longbows. Good Luck Hunting.
[This message has been edited by bishs (edited 12-22-2000).]
But in the hustle and bustle of everyday life people are seeking fast and easy results. The quicker the better. This thought process falls right into the hands of manufacturers, who are busy creating, high tech equipment from scopes to bows with 85% let off! Expandable broadheads, ect.
Is this what we want? Isn't bowhunting for people who want a challenge far greater than gun hunting? And now we have the crossbow folks nocking at our door step; if ever allowed into our bowseason; will not only crowd our sport but will most likely shorten our season due to the ease at which a deer can be harvested. But its hard to state a good argument against crossbows when todays compounds are not far behind!
I have nothing against compounds and have hunted with them for years. I just believe a line needs to be drawn to make sure bowhunting is still a SPORT! This very reason is why we see an ongoing flow of bowhunters like myself switching to recurves and longbows. Good Luck Hunting.
[This message has been edited by bishs (edited 12-22-2000).]
You should get a longbow and shoot both bows. The longbow will be fun to target practice and stump shoot with and when it feels right you will hunt with it.
Confidence is the key. Typically the biggest change you will have to make when you start hunting with a longbow is your shooting distance. Shorten your distance to your effective range. It may be under 15 yards for the first couple seasons.
The most important thing to remember no matter what you are shooting is to have fun!
Confidence is the key. Typically the biggest change you will have to make when you start hunting with a longbow is your shooting distance. Shorten your distance to your effective range. It may be under 15 yards for the first couple seasons.
The most important thing to remember no matter what you are shooting is to have fun!
All of you guys make good points. I choose to shoot a recurve, I personally like the simplicity and the beauty of the flight of the arrow. It's primitive, but lethal, and ties us to our past. No one can say who invented the bow or for sure where it showed up first in our history but all men had it, from Asia to Africa, Europe and the New World.
During the Middle Ages the crossbow appeared in Europe, but it didn't replace the Archer in the armys of those times. In fact, a competent archer could release several arrows from his longbow to every bolt that a crossbowman could fire. The Mongol warrior's short bamboo recurve could pierce armor and could be fired from horseback. So in those days the crossbow's advantages were few, it was short lived and quickly replaced by technology's forward march and gunpowder.
The point is technology changes and improves our weapons. My recurve is wrapped in fiberglass and is a far cry from the bows the Native Americans used. I choose cedar arrows with a swagged tip and a glued on broadhead but have thought about trying carbon. A compound bow has some advantages over traditional archery but it is still archery. Each archer can draw his own lines as to how much technology he wants to employ to pursue his sport but the essence remains essentially the same. It is archery.
I have always thought of the crossbow as more of a novelty weapon. I don't have a problem with it being legal for hunting but not for broad use during the archery season. Why? Simply because it is not archery. If we make crossbows legal let's do it for the gun season and beyond. Crossbows don't belong in the archery season!
During the Middle Ages the crossbow appeared in Europe, but it didn't replace the Archer in the armys of those times. In fact, a competent archer could release several arrows from his longbow to every bolt that a crossbowman could fire. The Mongol warrior's short bamboo recurve could pierce armor and could be fired from horseback. So in those days the crossbow's advantages were few, it was short lived and quickly replaced by technology's forward march and gunpowder.
The point is technology changes and improves our weapons. My recurve is wrapped in fiberglass and is a far cry from the bows the Native Americans used. I choose cedar arrows with a swagged tip and a glued on broadhead but have thought about trying carbon. A compound bow has some advantages over traditional archery but it is still archery. Each archer can draw his own lines as to how much technology he wants to employ to pursue his sport but the essence remains essentially the same. It is archery.
I have always thought of the crossbow as more of a novelty weapon. I don't have a problem with it being legal for hunting but not for broad use during the archery season. Why? Simply because it is not archery. If we make crossbows legal let's do it for the gun season and beyond. Crossbows don't belong in the archery season!
I HAD TO SHOOT A CROSSBOW!
I have been shooting Archery for 28 years and love it. Last year I had to use a Crossbow for the first time. I have nerve damage in my neck and lost some use of my left arm. I was unable to lift it or do a bicep curl with a 1# weight. Doctors told me I wold never shoot a compound again. I was just sick.....never shoot a real bow again!!!
So I got a permit to use one and was not to happy with the idea at all. After using it for a season (1999), it was not to bad, but was not like the o'l bow.
You think its like shooting a gun? NOT maybe aiming but not shooting like a gun. My arrows dropped about 19" from 20 yards to 40 yards. It shoots 265 FPS with a 2315 20" long and the bow is 165#. Kinetic is 65#.
Yes it was better than sitting at home felling bad and not going hunting at all..But I missed my o'l bow.
I was pissed and worked on my arm for months to come and you know what..I can now shoot a compound bow at 60#. It's hard but I can do it. NOW the permit sits in the tackle box getting dust. YES the doctors said I would never shoot again and now sit back with their mouth dropped open.
This year (2000) on 10/08/2000 I shot a nice 8 pointer that scored 100 1/8". WITH my Martin Phantom Compound. And loved it. I'm now one with my bow and fell like I'm hunting again.
I talk to many customer each year and most tel me that if they too could have a wish it would to shoot a compound again.
It's not all it seems to be, crossbows are fun at times but the best is a "Real" bow, compound, longbow or recurve.
My dream now is to shoot a deer with a stick bow, cedar arrow and a naped out head...who knows?
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Bowdoctor
http://communities.msn.com/archeryamerica
I have been shooting Archery for 28 years and love it. Last year I had to use a Crossbow for the first time. I have nerve damage in my neck and lost some use of my left arm. I was unable to lift it or do a bicep curl with a 1# weight. Doctors told me I wold never shoot a compound again. I was just sick.....never shoot a real bow again!!!
So I got a permit to use one and was not to happy with the idea at all. After using it for a season (1999), it was not to bad, but was not like the o'l bow.
You think its like shooting a gun? NOT maybe aiming but not shooting like a gun. My arrows dropped about 19" from 20 yards to 40 yards. It shoots 265 FPS with a 2315 20" long and the bow is 165#. Kinetic is 65#.
Yes it was better than sitting at home felling bad and not going hunting at all..But I missed my o'l bow.
I was pissed and worked on my arm for months to come and you know what..I can now shoot a compound bow at 60#. It's hard but I can do it. NOW the permit sits in the tackle box getting dust. YES the doctors said I would never shoot again and now sit back with their mouth dropped open.
This year (2000) on 10/08/2000 I shot a nice 8 pointer that scored 100 1/8". WITH my Martin Phantom Compound. And loved it. I'm now one with my bow and fell like I'm hunting again.
I talk to many customer each year and most tel me that if they too could have a wish it would to shoot a compound again.
It's not all it seems to be, crossbows are fun at times but the best is a "Real" bow, compound, longbow or recurve.
My dream now is to shoot a deer with a stick bow, cedar arrow and a naped out head...who knows?
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Bowdoctor
http://communities.msn.com/archeryamerica
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2,099 Posts
All good points, guys.
One of the major reasons I got into bowhunting was for the challenge. I use a 'Bear Hunter' model set at 65# I purchased in Wal-Mart 6 years ago. I've got one pin set for 12 yards and thats it: If they're not that close.... I don't shoot. I use Cabela's lazer pro-Mag broadheads and have cleanly killed 5 deer with my simple set-up.
Having said that, I fully realize that my way is not everyone's way..... nor should it be. The recurve hunter may scorn me, while I wonder at those who need a 4500 FPS 99% let-off Magnum bow w/overdraw, peep-sights, carbon arrows, and expanding broadheads.
We're all in the bow-hunting fraternity, and I feel its dangerous ground to dictate how others should enjoy the sport.
Yet I, too, feel that the move towards crossbos is fueled by the 'instant-gratification' crowd of hunters. Yes some will use them because they are a new novelty, but my take is that most will be used by hunters who want to be able to kill a deer with an arrow but haven't been able to do so with a longbow.
I have no problems with crossbows being legalized; but I do rank them in the same category as game farm 'hunting'.
One of the major reasons I got into bowhunting was for the challenge. I use a 'Bear Hunter' model set at 65# I purchased in Wal-Mart 6 years ago. I've got one pin set for 12 yards and thats it: If they're not that close.... I don't shoot. I use Cabela's lazer pro-Mag broadheads and have cleanly killed 5 deer with my simple set-up.
Having said that, I fully realize that my way is not everyone's way..... nor should it be. The recurve hunter may scorn me, while I wonder at those who need a 4500 FPS 99% let-off Magnum bow w/overdraw, peep-sights, carbon arrows, and expanding broadheads.
We're all in the bow-hunting fraternity, and I feel its dangerous ground to dictate how others should enjoy the sport.
Yet I, too, feel that the move towards crossbos is fueled by the 'instant-gratification' crowd of hunters. Yes some will use them because they are a new novelty, but my take is that most will be used by hunters who want to be able to kill a deer with an arrow but haven't been able to do so with a longbow.
I have no problems with crossbows being legalized; but I do rank them in the same category as game farm 'hunting'.
Bowdoctor; good for you!
I am glad to see you were able to defy the odds, and shoot a bow again.
Congratulations! just shows the mind is a powerfull thing. With that determination, your goal of using a stickbow, cedar arrows is very achievable.
I don't have a problem with handicap hunters using crossbows. I don't want to see them legalized in gun season; I feel that if they are legalized in gun season, they will slip into archery season along with us bowhunters, because it shoots an arrow.
Ohio uses crossbows during archery season, and takes more deer with crossbows than archery. If you go to the Ohio bowsite you will see the complaints from bowhunters.
Have a Great Holiday!
I am glad to see you were able to defy the odds, and shoot a bow again.
Congratulations! just shows the mind is a powerfull thing. With that determination, your goal of using a stickbow, cedar arrows is very achievable.
I don't have a problem with handicap hunters using crossbows. I don't want to see them legalized in gun season; I feel that if they are legalized in gun season, they will slip into archery season along with us bowhunters, because it shoots an arrow.
Ohio uses crossbows during archery season, and takes more deer with crossbows than archery. If you go to the Ohio bowsite you will see the complaints from bowhunters.
Have a Great Holiday!
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2 Posts
I want to start off by thanking you gentlemen for your unapologetic, yet even-handed remarks concerning crossbow hunters. Not many forums or other posting outlets have been quite as ready to attempt understanding (ahem, certain bowhunting associations). I have not joined the "rifle-bow" ranks yet, but have been approached many times since I lost a significant amount of strength and mobility after crushing both elbows in a construction accident (that's what I get for helping family :lol: ), neither do I intend to until it is my absolutely last option.
IMHO, it would be nice to see a little more support for injured hunters from the bowhunting community. I know...I sound like another special-interest groupie and am rolling my eyes at myself as I type
, however, I speak the truth. There have been some large advances toward helping the blind (by hunting with specially-trained guides) and paralysed (bows that can be mounted on a stand and drawn with the teeth), but little for those who are not quite as disabled. I am currently working with another gentleman who designs, builds, and fits orthopedic appliances from scratch to create a modification that would allow me, and potentially any other similarly-disabled person, to use a bow again. This is not something that should be just left to a handful of weekend garage-jockeys, so I'm asking anyone with constructive comments, ideas, questions, whatever to email me at [email protected] and help get this ball rolling.
Thanks for your time and the great forum, guys. Thumbs up to you, Bowdoctor, for your perseverence.
IMHO, it would be nice to see a little more support for injured hunters from the bowhunting community. I know...I sound like another special-interest groupie and am rolling my eyes at myself as I type
, however, I speak the truth. There have been some large advances toward helping the blind (by hunting with specially-trained guides) and paralysed (bows that can be mounted on a stand and drawn with the teeth), but little for those who are not quite as disabled. I am currently working with another gentleman who designs, builds, and fits orthopedic appliances from scratch to create a modification that would allow me, and potentially any other similarly-disabled person, to use a bow again. This is not something that should be just left to a handful of weekend garage-jockeys, so I'm asking anyone with constructive comments, ideas, questions, whatever to email me at [email protected] and help get this ball rolling.Thanks for your time and the great forum, guys. Thumbs up to you, Bowdoctor, for your perseverence.
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2,707 Posts
i think everyone agrees that crossbows are acceptable for those who can't hunt otherwise.
technology is not the root of the problem, but a catalyst. too many hunters have been drawn away from the intimate nature of hunting. technology tends to focus on one part of the hunting experience, and magnify it. a true respect for nature, time spent in the woods in the months before and after the hunt(conservation), a desire to learn everything you can about the animal you harvest, and discipline enough to practice to ensure a quick clean kill. these types of attributes transcend technology. those are the people that i want to hunt with. its up to them to choose their weapon, and to be effective within its limitations.
next time you go hunting, remind yourself: let my actions be guided by a code of ethics that ensures the continued success of my prey, as well as others in the woods.
then pick up your chosen technology and go to work.
technology is not the root of the problem, but a catalyst. too many hunters have been drawn away from the intimate nature of hunting. technology tends to focus on one part of the hunting experience, and magnify it. a true respect for nature, time spent in the woods in the months before and after the hunt(conservation), a desire to learn everything you can about the animal you harvest, and discipline enough to practice to ensure a quick clean kill. these types of attributes transcend technology. those are the people that i want to hunt with. its up to them to choose their weapon, and to be effective within its limitations.
next time you go hunting, remind yourself: let my actions be guided by a code of ethics that ensures the continued success of my prey, as well as others in the woods.
then pick up your chosen technology and go to work.
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3,285 Posts
As new gear makes it easier to bow hunt more people get into it. Great marketing. The advent of compound bows lead to the explosion in bow hunting popularity. I remember that when the compound bow became a legal hunting device in Michigan alot of guys I knew who never bow hunted because they either couldn't, or wouldn't take the time to master a stick bow started to bow hunt. Because it made it easier.
Get the stick-bow Steve. You'll be impressed with how smooth, quiet, and light-weight they are.
Get the stick-bow Steve. You'll be impressed with how smooth, quiet, and light-weight they are.
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Technology is a tough thing because we all use it and love it sometimes but hate it others. We have expandable broadheads now, why? Because we have bows that are too fast for conventional broadheads c'mon this is a tech issue and I hate to see people think that technology is what makes a good woodsman. I don't favor all kinds of laws either so it is up to us as sportsmen and women to police ourselves and keep these sports "sporting". I am not talking crossbows or laser rangefinder or anything in particular but just where hunting is going in general. I too have really thought about the stick bow idea this last year because of the lure of simplicity and challenge (which is also what lured me to bowhunting in the first place). No matter recurve or compound iron sights or high powered scope, lets keep the outdoors open to future generations and teach them what is ethically sound practices and what are not
AW
AW
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329 Posts
For me, the wonder of being in the woods and fields hasn't been any different whether I was in a ground blind, a treestand, a buttpad on the ground, walking behind a pointing dog, or standing and listening to beagles run. In all cases I've had intimate encounters with nature. None has been more "mystical" than another.
From the standpoint of a new woman hunter, I can tell you it isn't a desire to take shortcuts or practice less that drew me to the "technologically advanced" archery equipment. My biggest concern is making a good shot when you have only that one shot to make. Maybe it's a girl thing, but I was terrified of screwing up and making a wounding shot and being unable to recover the deer and that was keeping me from even trying bow hunting. I've been to enough of the Outdoorswomen events to know a lot of other women feel the same way.
I started with a crossbow and became consistent enough that I was willing to take it into the woods. I was very disappointed with the limited time I had available to use it. I mean--jeez, you can use anything during late antlerless season, bow, rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader, handgun, except a crossbow. That seems kinda ridiculous.
This year, I bought a compound vertical bow. As critical as I can be about my own shooting skill, I know I am ready now to be in woods with it this autumn. I just got my Dad's old recurve out of the attic and bought a new string, got a glove, and some wood arrows. I'm planning to have some fun with that over the summer. Come fall, no matter which one I take in the woods you can bet I'll have practiced more than anough to be confident I will make a good shot. I just wish I had the option to use my crossbow especially on days I have to bundle up in so much clothing that finding my anchor point or thumbing my release will be a royal pain.
As long as the resource is not negatively impacted, I don't have any problems with any of the equipment I've used or seen at the shows. I completely agree with Joe Archer. Use whatever legal weapon you want as long as you are competent with it and support other hunters wishes to do the same.
From the standpoint of a new woman hunter, I can tell you it isn't a desire to take shortcuts or practice less that drew me to the "technologically advanced" archery equipment. My biggest concern is making a good shot when you have only that one shot to make. Maybe it's a girl thing, but I was terrified of screwing up and making a wounding shot and being unable to recover the deer and that was keeping me from even trying bow hunting. I've been to enough of the Outdoorswomen events to know a lot of other women feel the same way.
I started with a crossbow and became consistent enough that I was willing to take it into the woods. I was very disappointed with the limited time I had available to use it. I mean--jeez, you can use anything during late antlerless season, bow, rifle, shotgun, muzzleloader, handgun, except a crossbow. That seems kinda ridiculous.
This year, I bought a compound vertical bow. As critical as I can be about my own shooting skill, I know I am ready now to be in woods with it this autumn. I just got my Dad's old recurve out of the attic and bought a new string, got a glove, and some wood arrows. I'm planning to have some fun with that over the summer. Come fall, no matter which one I take in the woods you can bet I'll have practiced more than anough to be confident I will make a good shot. I just wish I had the option to use my crossbow especially on days I have to bundle up in so much clothing that finding my anchor point or thumbing my release will be a royal pain.
As long as the resource is not negatively impacted, I don't have any problems with any of the equipment I've used or seen at the shows. I completely agree with Joe Archer. Use whatever legal weapon you want as long as you are competent with it and support other hunters wishes to do the same.
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