Michigan-Sportsman.com banner

41 - 60 of 155 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,678 Posts
+1 for cutting out the old work and replacing with new soldered copper.
My late father in law was a master pipefitter and quite outspoken and set in his ways. He would only use black iron pipe and fittings whenever possible. He said that plastic stuff is junk. I would tell him that science says "plastic" pipe for drain or venting applications is better.
Why are there so many people so adamant about copper vs PEX? Doesn't PEX meet all the technical requirements for house applications. Are all those fans of copper too set in their ways?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,815 Posts
Burning the surroundings is pretty easy to avoid... doesn't everyone have one of these intheir plumbing toolbox?

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-flame-protector--2068652191
not in my tool box, but I don't/haven't repaired much plumbing but when I have it's been copper (because I have never lived in a newer house plumed with anything else) I used a dry wall tool as a heat deflector. I know PEX had a bad name years ago but I feel advancements in technology its a much better system today. Big savings in piping price but pex connectors are more expensive, but with pex it's possible to eliminate some elbows and unions.

We replace all the plumbing in our cabin using PEX and it was nice to snake a 30' run from the pump to the first junction.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28,184 Posts
Why are there so many people so adamant about copper vs PEX?
I'm not particularly adamant - I've got stuff plumbed with PEX and copper in my main house (plus PVC, copper, and cast iron drains), and my cottage has CPVC and galvanized (with PVC and cast iron drains)...


Doesn't PEX meet all the technical requirements for house applications.
Yep.

So does galvanized, copper, PVC/CPVC - and probably some other things I'm not thinking of.

Are all those fans of copper too set in their ways?
Eh... I'll use anything - I just have preferences.

Part of the preference is due to rigidity - I want copper, 1/4 turn, ball valves on every feed line within a few feet of the outlet that I can turn without the plumbing moving. I HATE valving in PVC/PEX.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,941 Posts
Yes.



Highly, highly unlikely.




Definitely true - particularly in new builds.



Easier to repair, but not much (sweating copper is easy). Much more likely to need repair.
As long as valves work and actually stop water. When they don't is when you have issues, retrieving tools flung forty feet in a crawl would be one such issue.haha.


More efficient (about 30%) for UNINSULATED hot water lines.



Assuming you are using the same size feed, yes.



Yes.



The same in a properly plumbed system.




Quicker to install and cheaper are 100% of the reason why more new construction homes are built with PEX than copper.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,815 Posts
Part of the preference is due to rigidity - I want copper, 1/4 turn, ball valves on every feed line within a few feet of the outlet that I can turn without the plumbing moving. I HATE valving in PVC/PEX.
Good point, our water softener has the three 1/4 turn valves to by-pass the system and filter. 3/4 copper because I can't reach them I use the water filter wrench to reach up there and pull them shut or push then back open. If PVC or Pex I feel I would need to get a stool so I could support the pipe while closing or opening,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,126 Posts
Good point, our water softener has the three 1/4 turn valves to by-pass the system and filter. 3/4 copper because I can't reach them I use the water filter wrench to reach up there and pull them shut or push then back open. If PVC or Pex I feel I would need to get a stool so I could support the pipe while closing or opening,
I have valves at every supply line as well. As long as you know how to secure a plastic pipe, you'll be fine, lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,489 Posts
Highly, highly unlikely.
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.ppfahome.org/resource/resmgr/pdf/Peer_Reviewed_Pipe_Use_Phase.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm-copper-mining-and-production-wastes

https://www.ppfahome.org/page/SMC
Quicker to install and cheaper are 100% of the reason why more new construction homes are built with PEX than copper.
Those are pretty good reasons.

What "environmentally friendly" claim?

NO form of plumbing (CPVC/PVC, Copper, PEX, cast iron, etc) is environmentally friendly.

It's just a question of degree of unfriendliness.

IME - the lifespan of PEX compared to copper is not great. Whether it be UV exposure, rubbing, chlorination, insect/rodent damage.

I've personally NEVER had a copper pipe fail for any reason other than freezing - and that includes original piping in 100+ year old houses. I've personally repaired numerous failed pieces of PEX - failures at crimp joints, from rodents, from wear through, cuts, heat damage, etc.

Now - neither that PEX nor the copper was installed by me, so it may partially be that PEX just attracts folks who do a horrible job running plumbing.
No one disputes that copper is reliable and when you over look the environmental impact it's perfectly suited for use in piping. I've seen it fail like you by freezing mostly and "trauma" second. Mostly that has been loading with various items. For PEX the only failure I've seen has been from homeowners drilling into places they shouldn't have. So, both are certainly adequate to the task. But PEX is what is done now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,185 Posts
I've been plumbing for nearly 30 years, replace everything close to the leak, the proximity to the other joints will be a problem when you heat the leaking joint. the heat will melt the solder in the near by joints and create more leaks, you cannot just heat the leaking joint and pour more solder in it, doesn't work that way. by the way, I have repaired joints that are 50 + years old, all it takes is a bump to expose a poorly soldered joint that hasn't leaked in all that time!
a lot of misinformation in this thread, good entertainment!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
I've been plumbing for nearly 30 years, replace everything close to the leak, the proximity to the other joints will be a problem when you heat the leaking joint. the heat will melt the solder in the near by joints and create more leaks, you cannot just heat the leaking joint and pour more solder in it, doesn't work that way. by the way, I have repaired joints that are 50 + years old, all it takes is a bump to expose a poorly soldered joint that hasn't leaked in all that time!
a lot of misinformation in this thread, good entertainment!
Can you clarify (based on your experience) what is and what isn't misinformation in this thread?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
What "environmentally friendly" claim?

NO form of plumbing (CPVC/PVC, Copper, PEX, cast iron, etc) is environmentally friendly.

It's just a question of degree of unfriendliness.

IME - the lifespan of PEX compared to copper is not great. Whether it be UV exposure, rubbing, chlorination, insect/rodent damage.

I've personally NEVER had a copper pipe fail for any reason other than freezing - and that includes original piping in 100+ year old houses. I've personally repaired numerous failed pieces of PEX - failures at crimp joints, from rodents, from wear through, cuts, heat damage, etc.

Now - neither that PEX nor the copper was installed by me, so it may partially be that PEX just attracts folks who do a horrible job running plumbing.
Dude go back and read the post that you originally commented on. I stated PEX is "more environmentally friendly than copper"

Your response was "highly, highly unlikely"

I respond with "A life cycle analysis comparing the two shows that using a pex system is more environmentally friendly than copper"

Then you start to go off on a tangent about how nothing is environmentally friendly.

You should teach a class called "How to create an argument out of thin air"
 
41 - 60 of 155 Posts
Top