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Discussion Starter #1
We are all well aware of what sportsmen pay to play outside. Does anyone know how a commercial fishing operation is charged for what they do? What taxes, fees, and other resource based expenses do they pay to take from the fishery? Do they pay based on the tonnage of their take? Have those expenses increased in recent years at the same ratio sportsmen fees have?

I am against game fish being harvested by nets. Having said that, I want to put in perspective what they pay to help fund the resource. I have yet to read an article, advocating for them, that highlights the fees they pay to do their part for restocking. At this point, my perception is their fees have not increased and it has put them on the defensive without a lot of offense. Because of this, their only play is to the hearts and minds of people not getting their fish dinner.

If I am wrong, please educate me.
 

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Dont know what their fees are but should go up over time, if nothing else just to keep up with inflation.

I think a pound of fish should cost what it costs for me to buy gear, bait and go catch it. Then we can see how bad people really want to buy it :)
 

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We are all well aware of what sportsmen pay to play outside. Does anyone know how a commercial fishing operation is charged for what they do? What taxes, fees, and other resource based expenses do they pay to take from the fishery? Do they pay based on the tonnage of their take? Have those expenses increased in recent years at the same ratio sportsmen fees have?

I am against game fish being harvested by nets. Having said that, I want to put in perspective what they pay to help fund the resource. I have yet to read an article, advocating for them, that highlights the fees they pay to do their part for restocking. At this point, my perception is their fees have not increased and it has put them on the defensive without a lot of offense. Because of this, their only play is to the hearts and minds of people not getting their fish dinner.

If I am wrong, please educate me.
There are differences between the commercial fishing laws and the recreational fishers regulations.
Commercial netting is under the laws established by our legislature not the DNR. Thats why this re-write of the bill is important to re establish up to date laws that address quotas, net identification, license fees, violation penalties and seasonal netting restrictions.
Whereas, recreational fishing rules and creel limits are controlled by the DNR by regulation changes. Thats why it only took a stroke of the pen to change the limits on perch from 50 to 25, it did not need any government approvals. Any changes to the commercial netting has to come from the legislature and approved by the Senate Thats why nothing has been done to change the laws in many years because nobody in the house of representatives has proposed any new bills.
It's a hard thing to say but recreational fishing is a privilege that can be taken away by DNR mandate. Commercial netting is controlled by law and it takes a revision in the current laws to change netting practices. It may require approval from both houses and Madam governor.
 

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There are differences between the commercial fishing laws and the recreational fishers regulations.
Commercial netting is under the laws established by our legislature not the DNR. Thats why this re-write of the bill is important to re establish up to date laws that address quotas, net identification, license fees, violation penalties and seasonal netting restrictions.
Whereas, recreational fishing rules and creel limits are controlled by the DNR by regulation changes. Thats why it only took a stroke of the pen to change the limits on perch from 50 to 25, it did not need any government approvals. Any changes to the commercial netting has to come from the legislature and approved by the Senate Thats why nothing has been done to change the laws in many years because nobody in the house of representatives has proposed any new bills.
I'm not sure you answered anything pertaining to the questions he asked

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There are differences between the commercial fishing laws and the recreational fishers regulations.
Thats why this re-write of the bill is important to re establish up to date laws that address quotas, net identification, license fees, violation penalties and seasonal netting restrictions.
HUGE differences. Commercial netters max fine is $200, recreational anglers lose their truck,boat and all equipment to take 1 fish over limit. Far cry from justice being served. And to think they really feel they (commercial netters) are being pick on. LMAO
Need to rewrite the bills to have an Independent source watch over them, once that happens the game will change in many ways!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There are differences between the commercial fishing laws and the recreational fishers regulations.
Commercial netting is under the laws established by our legislature not the DNR. Thats why this re-write of the bill is important to re establish up to date laws that address quotas, net identification, license fees, violation penalties and seasonal netting restrictions.
Whereas, recreational fishing rules and creel limits are controlled by the DNR by regulation changes. Thats why it only took a stroke of the pen to change the limits on perch from 50 to 25, it did not need any government approvals. Any changes to the commercial netting has to come from the legislature and approved by the Senate Thats why nothing has been done to change the laws in many years because nobody in the house of representatives has proposed any new bills.
It's a hard thing to say but recreational fishing is a privilege that can be taken away by DNR mandate. Commercial netting is controlled by law and it takes a revision in the current laws to change netting practices. It may require approval from both houses and Madam governor.
Good information... I guess. However, it does nothing to answer the questions I asked. Have commercial operations seen increased fees and taxes to the same percentages the recreational fishermen have? To BayBorn's example, are the commercial fines and penalties inline with a DNR officer catching recreational angler with a couple fish over their limit?

Reading articles and looking between the lines, it feels like the commercial operations have greatly benefited (for too long) from stagnant fees and taxes while the recreational anglers have paid to build a world class fishery. I just haven't seen a solid argument from the commercial side that is supported by numbers, just emotion.

No one wants to put any family out of business in a malicious manner. But, many industries and businesses go in business and go out of business. It has been that way since the dawn of trade. Is it time for commercial operations to leave the Great Lakes? Are the Great Lakes too fragile to support both? I don't know, but want to get as much information (from both sides) as possible to form an educated opinion.

I am a West Sider, I am not intimately involved with the East Side fishery outside of a few trips per year. What I am intimately involved in is the price I pay to license my family members with recreational licenses to hunt and fish. So...

I will ask my question as simple as possible. Have commercial operations paid their fair share to build the world class fishery we have today they want to increase their take from? It's a simple yes or no question.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Watching the video of Rep Cambensey and her speech and the list of concessions the commercial operations are willing to take... Tell me they have not been good stewards or partners in building what we have today. Everything from tending nets more to cutting down on illegal take to stiffer penalties do not paint the picture that historically, they have been playing square. Just my opinion.

Her speech probably did more to highlight the lack of oversight and disregard than raise awareness to their plight. To those paying attention anyway...
 

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Good information... I guess. However, it does nothing to answer the questions I asked. Have commercial operations seen increased fees and taxes to the same percentages the recreational fishermen have? To BayBorn's example, are the commercial fines and penalties inline with a DNR officer catching recreational angler with a couple fish over their limit?

Reading articles and looking between the lines, it feels like the commercial operations have greatly benefited (for too long) from stagnant fees and taxes while the recreational anglers have paid to build a world class fishery. I just haven't seen a solid argument from the commercial side that is supported by numbers, just emotion.

No one wants to put any family out of business in a malicious manner. But, many industries and businesses go in business and go out of business. It has been that way since the dawn of trade. Is it time for commercial operations to leave the Great Lakes? Are the Great Lakes too fragile to support both? I don't know, but want to get as much information (from both sides) as possible to form an educated opinion.

I am a West Sider, I am not intimately involved with the East Side fishery outside of a few trips per year. What I am intimately involved in is the price I pay to license my family members with recreational licenses to hunt and fish. So...

I will ask my question as simple as possible. Have commercial operations paid their fair share to build the world class fishery we have today they want to increase their take from? It's a simple yes or no question.
S'zoo
I somewhat answered your question in-directly in my response. The answer to your question is an emphatic "NO". The fees, fines, fish designations,quotas are tied directly into what are laws state. The laws have not been changed in tens of years and the netters are still living to them. Thats why they need to be changed to the times. The DNR can change license fees, creel limits, launch fees etc. at any time without any real approvals.
By the way, bayborn my comments just stated facts, it wasn't favoring any one side in anyway. Actually my comments were pro fishing by stating the netters need to be changing their practices, paying higher fees and get more than a slap on the hand for violations.
 

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By the way, bayborn my comments just stated facts, it wasn't favoring any one side in anyway. Actually my comments were pro fishing by stating the netters need to be changing their practices, paying higher fees and get more than a slap on the hand for violations.
Okay Gordon you just said your post wasn't favoring any one side in any way then proceed to say Well ACTUALLY my comments were pro fishing....... You contradict yourself in almost every post. Good try.... You are far from supporting recreational anglers.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If the answer is no, it appears commercial fishing operations sat back and watched sport fishing pay the way. They should not be surprised the groups who paid now want control.

Shame on them for watching thousands of sport boats leave their harbors every week and not realizing what was happening and doing something.
 

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If the answer is no, it appears commercial fishing operations sat back and watched sport fishing pay the way. They should not be surprised the groups who paid now want control.

Shame on them for watching thousands of sport boats leave their harbors every week and not realizing what was happening and doing something.
At the same time though... sport fishing and hunting license fees went up a little and people had kittens over it. Fees hadn't changed in what... more than a decade? Then they went up by an equivalent of something like 3% per year and that was a problem.
 

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At the same time though... sport fishing and hunting license fees went up a little and people had kittens over it. Fees hadn't changed in what... more than a decade? Then they went up by an equivalent of something like 3% per year and that was a problem.
Seriously??? What the hell does that have anything to do with it? Fact of the matter is you and I paid for it and they paid Zero. Wow
 

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Seriously??? What the hell does that have anything to do with it? Fact of the matter is you and I paid for it and they paid Zero. Wow
It's called hypocrisy.

They're way behind and are bitching about potential fee increases. We were behind and bitched when they were increased. It's the same game.

Make them pay their fair share.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
At the same time though... sport fishing and hunting license fees went up a little and people had kittens over it. Fees hadn't changed in what... more than a decade? Then they went up by an equivalent of something like 3% per year and that was a problem.
Boil the frog... Slow increases over time are rarely fretted over. Big one time hits always get more push back. It's human nature.
 
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By the way, I think "fair" should take into account the price to have a productive fishery. Then, they pay their share based on % of total harvest. They take 2x what sport takes, they pay 2x the fee.
 

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It's called hypocrisy.

They're way behind and are bitching about potential fee increases. We were behind and bitched when they were increased. It's the same game.

Make them pay their fair share.
Difference is we been paying more than our fair share and they continue to pay zero. Its called Bullsnot. Been a One way and Now I hope its our way!
 

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By the way, I think "fair" should take into account the price to have a productive fishery. Then, they pay their share based on % of total harvest. They take 2x what sport takes, they pay 2x the fee.
Problem with your Statistical model lol is until there is A Third Source overlooking their harvest you & I will never know.. There's a fact for ya!
 
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