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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need to rid grasses from a minimum of 3 clover plots and also eyeing an acre of a mix consisting of beans/sunflowers/peas. I've never used Clethodim and just did some quick research on it. A couple of questions-
  • Arrest types of chemical are expensive, is Clethodim cheaper? If so is it due to an ability to purchase larger quantities? I can see buying it and having it around for future use as opposed to buying just enough Arrest each time.
  • Obviously there's a ton of people using it on food plots but I found this from a government website- Do NOT use crops for grazing of livestock or green feed following application until after the 60 day pre-harvest interval has been observed. Does this concern anyone?
Thanks in advance for the help!
 

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You don't pay for marketing with Clethodim. It's only a fraction of the cost of Arrest. You will need to add crop oil with either product.
 

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Clethodim works. Spray it on your plot and have patience. It seems like it takes forever to work. Then one day you will look at your plot and there is no longer any grass in it. It never seems like I see it die. It just disappears. I bought it from keystone pest solutions, online.
 

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Clethodim is Clethodim. You can buy it from the Whitetail Institute as Arrest Max @ 12.2 % clethodim for $40 per pint .... or you can buy Arrow 2 EC or Select 2 EC @ 26.4% clethodim for $80 per gallon ($10 per pint). Just depends on how much you want to spend for the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys, I didn't think about the marketing end of it, "paying for the label/packaging". Is the crop oil simply a surfactant? I've got something at home that does a couple different things, I've got hard water.

I assume I can get it at my local co-op as I'd sure like to apply it before the end of the weekend.....if this infernal rain holds off until then!! Fields were still a bit more wet than I'd like last night.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Additionally, I understand the whole read the label gig and that each sprayer is different. Is there a generic per acre dose you guys use? I keep records of such things and it's invaluable when I apply chemicals in following years. A starting point would be great as I can figure out how many gallons I'll need to do these fields based on my notes. Those labels can be confounding for those of us who are far from brilliant.
 

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I spray my clovers in the spring (May or early June) here in the U.P. before the grasses get too high. The crop oil is a sticker which helps the Clethodim adhere to the grasses. If you have hard water you can use sprayable AMS to make Glyphosate more effective. I generally don't use AMS with Cleth but I do add about 2 cups (1.7# per 10 gallons of water) when I mix my Gly.

If all you have are grasses in your clover, mix up 12-16 oz of Clethodim and 1 -2 pints of Crop Oil per acre.

If you also have some broadleaf weeds in your clover, add 8 oz of Glyphosate per acre with the Cleth.

After the spring spraying the best way to keep weeds from taking over your clover is to mow it a couple of times each summer before any weeds can go to seed.

Hope this helps Treestandguy.
 

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Thinking in advance for your clover next year to Jack is to frost seed it in March next spring at about half the rate. I did that to my 1 yr old plot this past spring and my clover is unbelievable!. No grass, no weeds, nuttin...I have not even fertalized it. The rain has helped I'm sure. I've had to cut 3 times already...It's been my best plot yet..The deer are starting to hit it now.
 

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The crop oil dissolves the waxy cuticle of the grass plant allowing the clethodim to enter the grass easier. Use rate should be a quart to the acre. Clethodim use rate is 6-16 oz per acre with the higher rate later in the season when grass is taller and harder to kill. Adding a LB per acre of AMS will also help on perennial grasses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Terrific info guys, sure appreciate it!

I didn't want to do a big posting originally but here's the history. These 3 clover plots were the first I ever did about 10 years back. They ran their course so I rotated crops 2 years. Sprayed the fields twice last year but failed to spray one last time before planting the clovers in later August, the fields seemed pretty clean....or so I thought.

I've been paying for that mistake ever since. Had weeds last fall but not terrible. This spring, different story. I basically nuked them early in the spring by using half the rate of gly, full doses of Arrest and some 2, 4-d that I had laying around. Over-seeded at that time. Some of last years clover made it through the chemical blast and the over-seeded has come on decently.

Fast forward again and I'm very surprised at how much grass is in 2 out of 3 plots. This damn rain is preventing me from getting in there. Had another inch last night where I would've been able to spray this weekend without it. If I can't get in there really soon than this will all be for naught, I'll have to start from scratch as the grass hasn't gone to head but can't be too far away either. I was planning on over-seeding again this fall, perhaps even frost seed next year.

THIS RAIN IS KILLING ME!!
 

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Terrific info guys, sure appreciate it!

I didn't want to do a big posting originally but here's the history. These 3 clover plots were the first I ever did about 10 years back. They ran their course so I rotated crops 2 years. Sprayed the fields twice last year but failed to spray one last time before planting the clovers in later August, the fields seemed pretty clean....or so I thought.

I've been paying for that mistake ever since. Had weeds last fall but not terrible. This spring, different story. I basically nuked them early in the spring by using half the rate of gly, full doses of Arrest and some 2, 4-d that I had laying around. Over-seeded at that time. Some of last years clover made it through the chemical blast and the over-seeded has come on decently.

Fast forward again and I'm very surprised at how much grass is in 2 out of 3 plots. This damn rain is preventing me from getting in there. Had another inch last night where I would've been able to spray this weekend without it. If I can't get in there really soon than this will all be for naught, I'll have to start from scratch as the grass hasn't gone to head but can't be too far away either. I was planning on over-seeding again this fall, perhaps even frost seed next year.

THIS RAIN IS KILLING ME!!
Time to invest in a backpack sprayer and a good pair of hiking shoes for occations like this.
 

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In a pinch you could probably use vegtable oil instead of crop oil. I also add a few drops os dish soap to my sprayer to help break the water surface tension - I have straight well water at my property and no softener. I sprayed my clover fields in May and they are very clean now. :) Also sprayed my clover with Butyrac 200 to kill some broadleafs.
 

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With how healthy the fields are with all the rain, Id consider the Glyphosate over the spendy cly. Should take care of your weed and grass with little set back to your clovers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Brief update and another related question about crop oil.

Fields finally dried out but the grasses were so tall I needed to brush-hog and did so two weekends ago. I haven't looked at them since but I'm looking forward to spraying the clethodim I purchasedd weeks ago. I finally remembered to look at the additive I have in the garage for gly, will this work in place of crop oil? If you can't read it- nonionic surfactant, spreader, penetrant, water conditioning agent and acidifier.

Thanks guys!
IMAG0068.jpg
 

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Jack, Unfortunately Level 7 is just Corn Syrup and AMS. Grass that has been mowed is typically hard to kill and that adjuvant won't help much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks Tim, was wondering if you'd be the guy to reply! I just want to clarify in my feeble brain... Your saying that clethodim+level 7 will likely have little affect on the grasses? Obviously I wouldn't just be using the level 7 by itself.

As much as anything I'm asking if when using clethodim I can rely on the level 7 to do the job most use crop oil for. Crop oil and clethodim are new products to me, I have no experience and no education on them. Just tired of buying Arrest in those tiny little quantities and great expense.

One of four fields was dramatically worse in terms of the volume grasses, the others weren't so bad. So instead of nuking the least affected with gly I'm still leaning toward giving that clethodim a shot and perhaps nuking the worst field. I already bought the clethodim and for some reason keep resisting buying the crop oil, but will if my level 7 will not be a helpful adjuvent.
 

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Jack, yes, my comments were intended as a clethodim/Level7 tankmix. In order for clethodim to work it must enter the plant and basically translocate to the growing point within the grass. While a good product clethodim has a tough time getting past the waxy cuticle on the leaf so it can enter the plant. That is where the crop oil comes in. It helps dissolve the waxy leaf surface so the clethodim can enter. The nitrogen component in the AMS is beneficial in a Clethodim tankmix, however there really isn't much in Level 7 that will help dissolve that waxy leaf cuticle. Crop oil would be a better choice especially if the grass has been mowed and the grass has hardened off.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Perfect explanation Tim, one that even a dumba** like me can understand! Appreciate your patience as well as the link Luv2. I just didn't want to buy more 'chemical' if what I have on hand would suffice, guess I'll be hitting the co-op tomorrow for another bottle.
 
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