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Discussion Starter #1
On my 20 acre parcel I have about 1.5 acres, spread out over several small plots, that were well prepped and planted in annuals last fall that I am looking to frost seed a cover plot into this year. I am only interested in frost seeding because I will be limited on time. I need to spend my time continuing to remove mature timber, working on travel corridors and planting trees. I only have a rear tined tiller for working ground and it is too timely for me to need to work ground until my July/August plantings. Therefor I am looking to frost seed and top seed my cover plot. I know I will likely not get all the soil building benefits of a tilled cover crop planting. I am looking for guidance to help maximize the benefits of a no till cover crop. I am less concerned with feeding deer during the summer as I am with covering otherwise bare dirt and the added benefits what soil building is possible with the no till cover crop. My soils are heavy.

Is it possible to frost seed any red clovers... Mammoth Red or Crimson with any success? If not can they be top seeded (broadcasted) later in the spring right before a rain witih any success? I know I'll get more green manure with the reds than white varieties but if I cannot frost seed or just broadcast to establish them I'll have to stick to the whites. If that is the case my thoughts were to go with the following plan...

Frost seeding of clvoer mix
Berseem
Alsike ( I have some areas of wet ground )
Ladino
Alice

Later on when the soils warm up I would broadcast oats over the clover mix for added green manure mass.

Any input is appreciated.
 

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My ride just showed up so I'll make this quick. Don't frost seed Berseem clover. The cold will kill it.
 

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Red clover and/or rye :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Red clover and/or rye :)
Can the red clovers be frost seeded? As for the rye If I were to broadcast it in late April/early May about how tall would it get by mid July? i need to avoid adding more work in order to till it back in as I only have a walk behind rear tine tiller. I'd rather not have to mow anything to prep for my fall plantings.
 

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Red clover is excellent for frost seeding

The rye should be around 8" tall. Weather is a huge variable that you cannot rely on or predict.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Red clover is excellent for frost seeding

The rye should be around 8" tall. Weather is a huge variable that you cannot rely on or predict.
8" rye sounds manageable for my plans. And if the reds can be frost seeded that is good news. Thanks for the info. Any particular varieties you would suggest for highest volume of green manure by frost seeding in heavy soils?
 

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You better watch that rye closely, if your rototilling by hand. 8" would probaly be doable but much taller might be a chore. I assume your wanting to plant the same annual this fall. I've always had good luck adding a white clover to my fall mix for my rotation. Been fall planting brassicas in the same plots for 8 yrs.
 

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You better watch that rye closely, if your rototilling by hand. 8" would probaly be doable but much taller might be a chore. I assume your wanting to plant the same annual this fall. I've always had good luck adding a white clover to my fall mix for my rotation. Been fall planting brassicas in the same plots for 8 yrs.
Freak, I did mix clover into my oats/peas mix plots last year that I top seeded rye into but did not add any in my brassicas plots. Last year's brassicas plots are what need the cover plot for this summer. For best nitrogen fixing by root nodules I'd like to add a bit of clover to all my fall annual plantings from here forward. What is your brassicas mix you've had that success with?
 

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I'm not understanding your goal. You aren't concerned with feeding the deer but you want to plant something. Why ?

If you just want to plant in the fall then do just that. Spray glypho once in the spring and once or twice over the summer and depending on what you want to plant for fall.... You might not even have to work the ground.
 

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Freak, I did mix clover into my oats/peas mix plots last year that I top seeded rye into but did not add any in my brassicas plots. Last year's brassicas plots are what need the cover plot for this summer. For best nitrogen fixing by root nodules I'd like to add a bit of clover to all my fall annual plantings from here forward. What is your brassicas mix you've had that success with?
I use imperials no-plow and add turnips or radishes and ladino clover to the mix. No-plow is basically rye, rape and a few radishes. You can make your own, I just choose not to.
 

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I'm not understanding your goal. You aren't concerned with feeding the deer but you want to plant something. Why ?

If you just want to plant in the fall then do just that. Spray glypho once in the spring and once or twice over the summer and depending on what you want to plant for fall.... You might not even have to work the ground.
I would think it's more for a rotation. Planting the same crop year after year makes it prone to disease and pests. Clover adds nitrogen and it helps build the Organic matter in the soil as does rye.
 

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I'm not understanding your goal. You aren't concerned with feeding the deer but you want to plant something. Why ?

If you just want to plant in the fall then do just that. Spray glypho once in the spring and once or twice over the summer and depending on what you want to plant for fall.... You might not even have to work the ground.
It's not that I don't care about feeding the deer just that my primary reasons that far exceed deer usage are weed supression and soil building and I didn't want for deer usage to influence guidance. Goals = natural weed supression, soil building, erosion control and then lastly deer usage.
 

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It's not that I don't care about feeding the deer just that my primary reasons that far exceed deer usage are weed supression and soil building and I didn't want for deer usage to influence guidance. Goals = natural weed supression, soil building, erosion control and then lastly deer usage.

Ok gotcha.
 

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Can the red clovers be frost seeded? As for the rye If I were to broadcast it in late April/early May about how tall would it get by mid July? i need to avoid adding more work in order to till it back in as I only have a walk behind rear tine tiller. I'd rather not have to mow anything to prep for my fall plantings.
Are you frost seeding clover and then tilling the same plot under for a fall planting ?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Are you frost seeding clover and then tilling the same plot under for a fall planting ?
Yes. If red clover does well frost seeded I will frost seed a mix of reds. Was thinking of adding oats/rye a bit later just by broadcasting to add to the volume of green manure that I will be working back into the soil when I plant annuals in these plots in late July / August. At that time I would like to add white clovers to all my annual mixes in order to establish better root systems in the clover for nitrogen fixing as I will continue the annual rotation in these plots.

The added white clover to all my oats/peas/rye annual plots last fall but did not add any clover to my brassicas plots. Those brassicas plots are what need the cover crop this summer. But, moving forward is like to mix clovers in with my fall brassicas plantings as well, if that yields good Spring/Summer clover the next year.
 

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Buckwheat does well for adding organic material. It matures fast so you can get multiple planting in one season. I know I can get two plantings in my area, it's possible that you could get 3.
 

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Pics from summer of 2014, this was a brassica planting in the fall of 2013 with white clover added, heavy soil.
plot 5




plot 3 was the same


Plot 2 from 2014 youth hunt, same mix as above. Only pics I have from this yr, I like to add urea after a couple weeks of germinating but didn't this last season, makes a big difference. 8-9 yrs in a row planting a fall brassica, better to rotate from yr to yr but. What works for me might not work for others. If lighter soil I would go with a red clover.


 

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I'm not understanding your goal. You aren't concerned with feeding the deer but you want to plant something. Why ?

If you just want to plant in the fall then do just that. Spray glypho once in the spring and once or twice over the summer and depending on what you want to plant for fall.... You might not even have to work the ground.[/QUOTE]

This is the route I went last year. I didn't work the ground at all. Just consistent sprayings that kept the dirt exposed. Broadcast brassicas, crimson clover and roundup ready alfalfa plots on August 1 and grain plots on Sept 1. I did drag the grain plots after broadcasting. These plots all turned out just as good as if I had worked the dirt.
I am now an official no-till plotter.
 
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