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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
http://m.petoskeynews.com/featured...2f-2219-5b4f-9f23-c4e0d9947dc4.html?mode=jqm
CHICAGO — Several recent water samples came back positive for silver carp eDNA above an electrical barrier system near Chicago and environmentalists are concerned the species of Asian carp may have reached the Great Lakes.

Water samples were collected in various locations throughout the Chicago Area Waterway System and results were reported Jan. 5 by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

A total of 23 results came back positive for silver carp eDNA, a species of Asian carp, in several locations throughout the waterway system, including six from the North Shore Channel, five from the Chicago River, eight from Lake Calumet and four from Little Calumet River.

The Tip of the Mitt Watershed Council in Petoskey is especially concerned by this latest round of positive results.

An electric barrier system was installed between 2002 and 2011 in the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal and consists of three electric barriers as well as a demonstration barrier. The barrier system was created to help repel Asian carp, but the Watershed Council is concerned the invasive fish species may be making it through the barrier and into the Great Lakes.

“It is absolutely concerning,” said Jennifer McKay, policy specialist for Tip of the Mitt Watershed Council. “This is not the first time there have been positive results above the barrier and the fact that we continue to see positive hits means the barrier is not working.”

McKay acknowledged that these hits do not guarantee a live fish, as the eDNA could have made it to the water by other means, but it is concerning to McKay nonetheless.

Representatives from the Army Corps of Engineers, the organization responsible for overseeing the system, were not immediately available for comment.

McKay referenced a history of positive results near these locations as to why she and the Watershed Council have elevated concerns over this round of samples.

“More positive hits means it is more likely there are at least some Asian carp above the barrier and in the Great Lakes system,” she said. “It certainly raises some red flags. We need to pay more attention, take this seriously and move to a long-term solution.”

Several short-term solutions have already been suggested, including additional electric barriers and air cannons within the Chicago Area Waterway System.

McKay said though these solutions may serve their purpose for the short term, a long-term solution must be agreed upon as quickly as possible.

The long-term solution she and the Tip of the Mitt Watershed Council support is a physical separation between the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River Basins in the Chicago Area Waterway System.
 

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Doesn't surprise me, the way they've drug their feet on this with their head in the sand. In the meantime.....lets stock some more lake trout
 

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Long term solution.... It's too late I'm afraid.
Twenty-some positives out of how many samples?

Positive eDNA samples do not directly indicate fish are present. Fish eating birds-ringbill and herring gulls, terns, mergansers all eat Asian carp juveniles and poop packets of digested fish. What these sample results do indicate is that Asian carp are in the vacinity of the Electric Barriers in high numbers.
 

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Considering I have a close friend that lives close to the barrier and works in the area as well, I find it hard to believe they have not made it beyOnd the barrier. Prior to the up dates, it would lose power for days at a time. One could surmise the passage of a few fish here and there during thosE periods of being inoperable.
 

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Doesn't surprise me, the way they've drug their feet on this with their head in the sand. In the meantime.....lets stock some more lake trout
Foot dragging courtesy of Army Corp of Engineers. Amazing that the electric barrier was originally planned for keeping gobies out of the Illiinois/Mississippi river systems.
 

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Foot dragging courtesy of Army Corp of Engineers. Amazing that the electric barrier was originally planned for keeping gobies out of the Illiinois/Mississippi river systems.
Has it worked on gobies on the Illinois/ Mississippi River system?
 

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Its going to happen, sooner or later. Bring em on, the salmon need something to eat:D:lol:I'm not worried about it, not the doom and gloom everyone is hyping up. Besides, they're good eating!
 

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Half full is good Ralph... problem is... all these Fly Fishermen going nuts trying to tie those little Zooplankton flies....:SHOCKED:
 

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Here's something I found in the January Inland Seas/Great Lakes Report. Since there's nothing much here, I could see where it doesn't hit the news. One thing I wonder though, is how much depth electrofishing is effective to? If it is only 6-8 feet and you're testing a 15 foot deep section of the canal, could you be missing something?
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November carp monitoring summary

Monitoring occurred in the CAWS (Chicago Area Waterway System) and upper Illinois Waterway downstream of the Electric Dispersal Barrier in May. No bighead carp or silver carp were any found in new locations downstream of the Electric Dispersal Barrier.
► Crews from IDNR, USFWS, and USACE completed 29 electrofishing runs at fixed locations (7.25 hours total) and 58 runs at randomly selected locations (14.5 hours total) in the Lockport, Brandon Road, Dresden 
Island, and Marseilles pools downstream of the Barrier during the weeks of November 5 and November 24.
► Crews collected 4,704 fish of 44 species during electrofishing.
► No bighead or silver carp were reported captured or seen during electrofishing in the Lockport, Brandon Road, and Dresden Island pools. 4 silver carp were collected during sampling at fixed and random sites in the Marseilles Pool. 
 

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The boom shockers used are likely AC beasties. The fish are stunned and roll to or near the surface, where they are netted by the crew members and tossed into a holding tank. Yes, some fish are stunned and fall out of the field, but assuming that ony Asian carp specimens are lost via this phenomena would be invalid...

Here is a reference map of the Illinois River sections electrofished:

http://www.ifishillinois.org/profiles/Illinois.php
 

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Fair enough. Was just speculating based on a comment I once heard from a county bio when they were doing a lake electroshocking survey. As you eluded to, all sorts of units with all sorts of power.

Cork, to what kind of depth can you get down to with the powerful electroshocking equipment?
 

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It's the A R M Y Corps of Engineers. ARMY! Has the same commander in chief that engineered Iraq to fall back in the hands of extremists. Who leads from behind. Who draws lines in the sand with disappearing red paint. What do you expect?
 

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The duration of whole barrier debacle has spanned at least 3 presidential administrations. Other than that...yep.
 

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not to mention that the courts have ruled against all the (non-illinois) great lakes states suing for permanent separation
 

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Fair enough. Was just speculating based on a comment I once heard from a county bio when they were doing a lake electroshocking survey. As you eluded to, all sorts of units with all sorts of power.

Cork, to what kind of depth can you get down to with the powerful electroshocking equipment?
An AC field shocker will allow you to work in 12-15' of water, depending on water clarity and the number of people on board netting. The deeper you go, the more nets you need in the water since the fish are stunned (AC current induces muscle tetanus) within the field, and as you stated they can fall out.

A pulsed DC unit isn't effective beyond a depth of about 6', but they are really nice because the fish litterally swim to the electrode due to current effects on alternate epaxial/hypaxial muscle bundles. They "hit" smaller fish harder, since they have higher surface area to volume ratios, so you can snap the spine on smaller fish that touch the electrodes. Most stream shockers and backpack units employ pulsed DC using a generator hooked to a capacitor. You can insert the elctrode wand under an undercut bank or into woody cover, rotate the wand back-and-forth as you withdraw the electrode on its tip, pulling fish out of cover.

I finally found the orginal eDnA article(to put this thread back on track).
Roughly 10% of the total sample number tested postitive for Asian carp eDNA.

Asain carp are sold in the Chinatown markets section of Chicago...tank water of ice-melt water dumped into a combined storm/sanitary sewer system is also an eDNA source.

Much like what happened with snakehead on the Potomac River system, I suspect human releases will likely be the source of Asian carp infestation within the Great Lakes.
 

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Last Spring I guided one of the President's special advisers on the Great Lakes.

In discussing the Asian Carp debacle with him throughout the day, he stated right now the biggest worry is human release as many have eluded to here.

Apparently there is a huge demand for these fish in places such as Toronto.

The Federal Government literally has special agents working under cover trying to unravel the supply chain of these fish to Canada and other areas.

The most disturbing thing I was told, when these operations have been uncovered, they have found fish still alive, despite the fact they have been removed from the water for over 24 hours. So there is a serious concern if anyone transporting these fish was to ever get spooked and dump them in other waters still alive it would lead to the spread we all worry about.

He also stated that he was concerned if we merely separated the Great Lakes in Chicago as many want done, it would lead to the demise of funding on researching ways to really stop these fish, as obviously just closing the locks isn't a permanent solution.

It was his opinion "and I agree", as of now the best solution would be to create a market for these fish to be sold on a large scale, there is nothing more powerful in terms of destroying fish populations than commercial fishing. The only real hurdle with that is, these fish have received so much publicity, rebranding as was done with the Chilean Sea Bass would be very difficult and any time the word "Carp" is involved, makes it tough to get the masses interested, even though technically these would be a healthier and apparently more tasty fish to consume than say, Tilapia...

By going this route, it would maintain a pressure on politicians to continue funding serious research on a permanent solution...

I sincerely hope they never ascend in any real numbers into Lake Michigan, my home waters will likely be one of the first effected...
 

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Last Spring I guided one of the President's special advisers on the Great Lakes.

In discussing the Asian Carp debacle with him throughout the day, he stated right now the biggest worry is human release as many have eluded to here.

Apparently there is a huge demand for these fish in places such as Toronto.

The Federal Government literally has special agents working under cover trying to unravel the supply chain of these fish to Canada and other areas.

The most disturbing thing I was told, when these operations have been uncovered, they have found fish still alive, despite the fact they have been removed from the water for over 24 hours. So there is a serious concern if anyone transporting these fish was to ever get spooked and dump them in other waters still alive it would lead to the spread we all worry about.

He also stated that he was concerned if we merely separated the Great Lakes in Chicago as many want done, it would lead to the demise of funding on researching ways to really stop these fish, as obviously just closing the locks isn't a permanent solution.

It was his opinion "and I agree", as of now the best solution would be to create a market for these fish to be sold on a large scale, there is nothing more powerful in terms of destroying fish populations than commercial fishing. The only real hurdle with that is, these fish have received so much publicity, rebranding as was done with the Chilean Sea Bass would be very difficult and any time the word "Carp" is involved, makes it tough to get the masses interested, even though technically these would be a healthier and apparently more tasty fish to consume than say, Tilapia...

By going this route, it would maintain a pressure on politicians to continue funding serious research on a permanent solution...

I sincerely hope they never ascend in any real numbers into Lake Michigan, my home waters will likely be one of the first effected...
Anything is palatable prepared by the right chef,unfortunately most folk aren't. Not that eating carp couldn't be done..but.. At the loss of perch, walleye, salmon and trout from the Great Lakes is Unfathomable.
 
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