[piketroller]

Patriots can also be criminals. Being a criminal does not prevent one from being a patriot.

See Sam Adams for a good example.

"Patriots" was the word of choice for Nostromo, and I replied using his chosen word, and I don't think there was any confusion introduced in that process. Maybe you should take it up with him why he chose that word to being with and what he may have been trying to imply through its use.

 

[pescadero]

"Patriots" was the word of choice for Nostromo,

"Patriots" was the word of choice for the criminals who invaded the Capitol.

and I replied using his chosen word, and I don't think there was any confusion introduced in that process.

You said they were criminals and not Patriots, as though the two were mutually exclusive.

Maybe you should take it up with him why he chose that word to being with and what he may have been trying to imply through its use.

His choice of use is irrelevant - I'm interested in why you think the fact that they are criminals means they aren't patriots. He never made the claim that criminals weren't patriots.

 

[DirtySteve]

It was a decision made by the EM appointed by the Governor.
The rest of your argument falls apart after this.

Not entirely. Flint had been planning for their own water for over 15 yrs. They had even purchased land north porthuron a long time ago for a water department with intentions to build a pipeline. The using flint river water to get out from under the wrath of detroit water system was a plan that had been drawn up and thought out long before the EM. He just happened to be the guy in charge at the time it was finally put in place. Changing leadership in the middle of a plan also plays a part in things going wrong. It wasnt the EM's fault he was put in the position and it wasnt snyders fault he had to appoint an EM for flint. There are plenty of reasons to lay blame evenly on all sorts of people for this. Including the leadership who failed flint before the EM.

 

[pescadero]

Not entirely. Flint had been planning for their own water for over 15 yrs.

Nope. Flint had been planning to join a regional water consortium (not their own) that would service a couple of counties atound Flint plus most of the Thumb.


...andnit wasn't 15 years. The consortium was formed in 2010.

The using flint river water to get out from under the wrath of detroit water system was a plan that had been drawn up and thought out long before the EM.

No, it wasn't. The plan was to move from Detroit water to Karegnondi water when Karegnondi was finished. There was no plan to move to the Flint River.

That only happened because the EM in Detroit decided to try to screw Flint, and the Flint EM refused to pay.

 

[piketroller]

"Patriots" was the word of choice for the criminals who invaded the Capitol.



You said they were criminals and not Patriots, as though the two were mutually exclusive.





His choice of use is irrelevant - I'm interested in why you think the fact that they are criminals means they aren't patriots. He never made the claim that criminals weren't patriots.

You used the word "is" in that reply. What is the meaning of that word? I can't answer if I don't understand your question.

 

[DirtySteve]

That sounds to me like THE COURT forced Boyce to raise water levels... and the state had no choice or discretion in approval. They were legally not allowed to say no.

Spin in it any way you want. If nessel doesnt file her lawsuit bryce keeps the water low and has significantly less risk. You are smart enough to understand this you just dont want to accept it.

The state knew the condition of the dam. Nessel was trying to appease the lakeowners in the name of lake mussels.

 

[piketroller]

Spin in it any way you want. If nessel doesnt file her lawsuit bryce keeps the water low and has significantly less risk. You are smart enough to understand this you just dont want to accept it.

The state knew the condition of the dam. Nessel was trying to appease the lakeowners in the name of lake mussels.

Using freshwater mussels a reason is a standard reason right out of the NGO eco warrior playbook to return nature to nature because they don't want humans to even put a footprint outside of a city. Read up on what the USFWS did to Lake Freeman down in Indiana. I think Nessel got her desired outcome and returned the system to an unobstructed run of the river system.

 

[Nostromo]

Spin in it any way you want. If nessel doesnt file her lawsuit bryce keeps the water low and has significantly less risk. You are smart enough to understand this you just dont want to accept it.

The state knew the condition of the dam. Nessel was trying to appease the lakeowners in the name of lake mussels.

We live in complicated world. In this world we have regulations to govern certain activities. In the case of an electrical production dam. There are a fair number of them. But, Bryce had a long history of failing to follow regulations. Operating for their own benefit at the expense of the community around them. The drawing down of the lake which Byrce conducted was to do unpermitted work. As I'm sure you know permits are required for many regulated activities. I'm no fan of Nessel, but she's right on this and on Snyder.

It's wrong to misrepresent the facts.

 

[Nostromo]

You used the word "is" in that reply. What is the meaning of that word? I can't answer if I don't understand your question.

Okay Bill Clinton.

 

[piketroller]

Okay Bill Clinton.

Serious questions get serious answers and silly questions beget more silly questions.

 

[Nostromo]

Serious questions get serious answers and silly questions beget more silly questions.

I just never suspected he was a hero of yours is all.

 

[piketroller]

I just never suspected he was a hero of yours is all.

You talking about Slick Willy? Just trying to make pesky feel comfortable by paraphrasing one of his brethren.

 

[Nostromo]

You talking about Slick Willy? Just trying to make pesky feel comfortable by paraphrasing one of his brethren.

That's what makes this forum special.

 

[piketroller]

That's what makes this forum special.

Those krauts do love playing their polka music.

 

[toto]

Spin in it any way you want. If nessel doesnt file her lawsuit bryce keeps the water low and has significantly less risk. You are smart enough to understand this you just dont want to accept it.

The state knew the condition of the dam. Nessel was trying to appease the lakeowners in the name of lake mussels.

Spin in it any way you want. If nessel doesnt file her lawsuit bryce keeps the water low and has significantly less risk. You are smart enough to understand this you just dont want to accept it.

The state knew the condition of the dam. Nessel was trying to appease the lakeowners in the name of lake mussels.

Hey it's no use arguing with Pesky, he is the best word twister on this website. He will never admit he's wrong, he will twist words to make you think you are, he's a master at it. In this case he won't admit that Nessel (apparently his hero) was negligent in not allowing to the lower water levels. The way I see it, she can say she didn't understand that if the water levels were lower, the safety factor went up; just as Snyder can say he didn't know the water pipes would have lead in them, he's not a professional water engineer, just as Nessel isn't a dam engineer. So what makes one think that Snyder was told all of the problems that could, will, or should be a problem?

 

[sureshot006]

Interesting thread. Quite political in a non-standard kind of way.

 

[hommer23]

From the Detroit News in May 23, 2020
Seems the State knew there was problems with the dam and failed to take action.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/n...layed-role-edenville-dams-failure/5251215002/

When FERC revoked its license, it turned regulation of the dam to the state, which requires only that the dam be able to handle half of the maximum storm possible.

State emails indicate the state knew as early as Jan. 31 that the dam failed even to meet state safety standards.

Even with that knowledge, the state granted dam owner Boyce Hydro’s permit request to raise Wixom Lake levels April 9, action the department has argued was required under the court-ordered lake levels and permitting laws.

 

[Nostromo]

was required under the court-ordered lake levels and permitting laws.

Court ordered says it all.

 

[DirtySteve]

We live in complicated world. In this world we have regulations to govern certain activities. In the case of an electrical production dam. There are a fair number of them. But, Bryce had a long history of failing to follow regulations. Operating for their own benefit at the expense of the community around them. The drawing down of the lake which Byrce conducted was to do unpermitted work. As I'm sure you know permits are required for many regulated activities. I'm no fan of Nessel, but she's right on this and on Snyder.

It's wrong to misrepresent the facts.

Bryce had a history of applying for permits to fix the dam. They put together proposals for inprovements and they were shot down because they weren't good enough. I am unaware of "illegal " improvements but might be plausible idk.

Lets say Bryce asks for permits to do XX amount of dollars in improvements. The goverment denies permits and says not good enough you need to spend XXX which everyone knows they cannot afford. This goes on for several years at there is evidence this happened. They go ahead and lower the water 2 yrs in a row and do improvements that are "illegal" even though their ability to produce power has already been revoked. Seems unlikely but hey maybe it happened. what is the real harm in letting them do some sort of improvement? Seems soemthing is better than nothing to me.

If there is harm in these illegal actions t. he govt could easily stop them from doing imorovements with other means beside forcing their hads to raise water levels in a dangerous period.

This argument started with a comparison of snyders involvement in flint vs nessel with wixom. Very obvious that both were not qualified for involvement in either scenario and both ended in disaster. In my opinion snyder was handed the issue and forced to deal with it and he did so poorly. The wixom issue was being handled by regulators for a decade without much improvement....but also not a disaster. Nessel poked her nose into the issue and caused the disaster in my opinion. I dont know exactly what the answer was for wixom but it clearly wasnt the action Nessel took.

I am not misrepresenting anything just calling it the way i see it.

 

[Chessieman]

Incorrect. Completely and utterly incorrect.

1) Flint officials didn't want their own water treatment facility. Flint officials wanted to move from the Detroit Water System (not Flint's) to the Karegnondi Water system (also not Flint's - but another regional water system).

2) It didn't matter what Flint officials wanted. They had no power. The decision to move IN THE FUTURE to Karegnondi WHEN IT WAS COMPLETED was made by the Emergency Mananger in Flint.

3) The Detroit EM got mad that Flint was going to leave the Detroit Water System in 4-5 years, so jacked up Flint's water rates to punish them.

4) The EM in Flint decided the jacked up rates were too high, but Karegnondi wasn't ready yet - so to save money he moved Flint onto Flint River Water

5) The EM and other higher ups decided NOT to properly treat said Flint water.

With the new water system being finished for a couple years now, I wonder how come they do not utilize it? Does anybody know if it is being used for anything now?